Dealers...NEED Clarification on ATF rules...
Nunn stated the following in another thread:
quote:As a FFL dealer, I can take a firearm from my inventory, and show it in my bound book as transferred to my personal collection. It is now off the books. If it remains in my personal collection for one year or longer, I can then legally dispose of it "off the books." If less than a year has passed, and I want to sell that firearm, I have to re-enter it in my bound book as a transfer from my personal collection, and then transfer it with a 4473.
Is this true??? The ATF told us that any firearm bought through the business had to be resold through the business if it was ever resold...as a matter of fact they told me that any firearm I own must be sold through the business now (IE: go through my log books). They also told us that we could not sell any firearm purchased through the business for a period of at least 1 year...period. One last question...they told us that I must keep a personal log book for any firearm acquired through the business. Is this true??? For the last 4.5 years I've been operating under the above assumptions...If David is correct, then I can sell personal firearms after a year without having them go through our books and I can sell within a year provided that they go back into my books.?.?
quote:As a FFL dealer, I can take a firearm from my inventory, and show it in my bound book as transferred to my personal collection. It is now off the books. If it remains in my personal collection for one year or longer, I can then legally dispose of it "off the books." If less than a year has passed, and I want to sell that firearm, I have to re-enter it in my bound book as a transfer from my personal collection, and then transfer it with a 4473.
Is this true??? The ATF told us that any firearm bought through the business had to be resold through the business if it was ever resold...as a matter of fact they told me that any firearm I own must be sold through the business now (IE: go through my log books). They also told us that we could not sell any firearm purchased through the business for a period of at least 1 year...period. One last question...they told us that I must keep a personal log book for any firearm acquired through the business. Is this true??? For the last 4.5 years I've been operating under the above assumptions...If David is correct, then I can sell personal firearms after a year without having them go through our books and I can sell within a year provided that they go back into my books.?.?
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Does this mean if you buy a gun for the business, you can't sell it for a year?
"They also told us that we could not sell any firearm purchased through the business for a period of at least 1 year...period. "0 -
quote:Originally posted by gjshaw
Does this mean if you buy a gun for the business, you can't sell it for a year?
"They also told us that we could not sell any firearm purchased through the business for a period of at least 1 year...period. "
My understanding was that any personal firearm purchased through the business could not be sold for at least one year.0 -
I've always went by the way Nunn explained it to you. 0 -
Heres the way I understand the law and have practiced for over 30 years that I've had my FFL. Since I have my business in my home any and all firearms whether personal or for sale must be logged. I keep a personal book for my guns and a business book for the guns in the business. Any firearms that I have owned and had entered in my personal guns logbook for a year or longer may be sold without filling out a 4473 and doing a background check, providing that all laws are followed. IE sell only to a resident of my state who may legally own a firearm. However you must still note in the disposition side of the logbook who that gun was sold to. In the majority of cases unless it is someone I know well enough to know that they may legally own a firearm I will do the 4473 just to cover my own butt. I have been complience checked by BATF with no problems.
Nunn is basically correct, but where you still have to note in your personal logbook where the firearm went to I do not consider it "disposing of it off the books". It more that you are disposing of it without the pain in the butt of the 4473 and background check.0 -
David is correct.
quote:They also told us that we could not sell any firearm purchased through the business for a period of at least 1 year...period.
SAY WHAT???
You can buy and sell the SAME DAY.
That is why you have a license, to make money.
Who ever heard, of having to keep inventory for a year, before you could sell it, in ANY business?
quote:One last question...they told us that I must keep a personal log book for any firearm acquired through the business.
What the heck is a "personal" log? Never heard of it.
The BATF has been feeding you a line of...............
Where do they come up with this cra.........
I would politely ask to be shown these rules.
I read the book, did the BATF agent?0 -
It is "suggested" that a FFL keep a bound book for his personal firearms, mainly to demonstrate that they are not part of his inventory. It is also mandated that the personal firearms be physically stored in a different place from the for sale firearms. This can be in the same room, in the same shop. One dealer I knew had a rather nice Mauser collection. They decorated one wall of his gun shop, and were out of reach of customers, and there was a "NOT FOR SALE" sign on the display. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by pickenup
David is correct.
quote:They also told us that we could not sell any firearm purchased through the business for a period of at least 1 year...period.
SAY WHAT???
You can buy and sell the SAME DAY.
That is why you have a license, to make money.
Who ever heard, of having to keep inventory for a year, before you could sell it, in ANY business?
quote:One last question...they told us that I must keep a personal log book for any firearm acquired through the business.
What the heck is a "personal" log? Never heard of it.
The BATF has been feeding you a line of...............
Where do they come up with this cra.........
I would politely ask to be shown these rules.
I read the book, did the BATF agent?
Hey Pick...that is any personal firearm purchased through the business...as in having been logged out to me.
They claimed that we must maintain a personal log book for our personal firearms. If I log a gun out of the business and into my personal inventory, it must be logged into my personal book...and the way they explained it was that if I wanted to sell one of my personal firearms, I had to log it out of my personal book, into the business book and sell it through the business.0 -
ERIC: here is the ATF REG..
(E8) May a licensee who has firearms in his or her private collection sell any of these firearms without making firearms record entries? [Back]
A licensee may sell a firearm from his or her personal collection, subject only to the restrictions on firearm sales by unlicensed persons, provided the firearm was entered in the licensee's bound book and then transferred to the licensee's private collection at least 1 year prior to the sale. When the personal firearm is sold, the sale must be recorded in a "bound book" for dispositions of personal firearms, but no ATF Form 4473 is required.
[27 CFR 478.125a]
Here is a site that will answer 99% of questions:
http://www.atf.treas.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#b10 -
I was told the same thing that I had to record the Sale in My Bound Book. 0 -
The above answer is direct from the ATF web site..http://www.atf.treas.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#b1 0 -
quote:Originally posted by Classic095
ERIC: here is the ATF REG..
(E8) May a licensee who has firearms in his or her private collection sell any of these firearms without making firearms record entries? [Back]
A licensee may sell a firearm from his or her personal collection, subject only to the restrictions on firearm sales by unlicensed persons, provided the firearm was entered in the licensee's bound book and then transferred to the licensee's private collection at least 1 year prior to the sale. When the personal firearm is sold, the sale must be recorded in a "bound book" for dispositions of personal firearms, but no ATF Form 4473 is required.
[27 CFR 478.125a]
Here is a site that will answer 99% of questions:
http://www.atf.treas.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#b1
Thanks for the info![8D]0 -
on my personal guns, i have a very little tag attached with a string that says PERSONAL GUN NOT 4 SALE 0 -
quote:Originally posted by ECC
Hey Pick...that is any personal firearm purchased through the business...as in having been logged out to me.
OK, that was not clear the first time.
Thanks for clearing it up.
As for the rest of the ca-ca from the BATF agent, like I said, show me.
A "suggestion" is NOT a rule.0
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