global warming ready for round 2
0
-
I read a report from the US senate committee on enviroment and public works.
sound like they doubt the it as well.
This is similar to the report I couldn't find it right off.
US Senate0 -
looks like some azz wipe is jearking the counter again.
nerds will be nerds0 -
global warming is either a joke or an out right lie!...i wonder how many "scientists" who make up their little computer models of the effects of global warming take into account the effects of the ice melting enough to raise sea levels?...makes sense to me that all of that cold water entering the oceans is going to cool the oceans off and level the temperature out across the globe!...sorry, i can not accept global warming...climate change is a totally different thing to global warming! 0 -
It's been happening since right after the "BIG BANG".No matter witch way they predict it, somebody's gotta be right..[:D] 0 -
wow 2,600+ lookers 4 posters, no one really cares at all if we all fry do they? 0 -
quote:Originally posted by 1911a1fan
wow 2,600+ lookers 4 posters, no one really cares at all if we all fry do they?
i think some nerd is jacking the count one time maybe a fluk 2 times something is up[:(!]0 -
Me thinks we need a "Global Warming" forum....[}:)][8D] 
0 -
quote:Originally posted by dan kelly
global warming is either a joke or an out right lie!
Is the ozone hole that you Aussies have been wailing about for the last 20 years an outright lie too?0 -
I read about Big Al Gore flying around in his Gulfstream spouting all that stuff about global warming. Did he invent this right after he invented the Internet?????
From where we live I can drive in most directions and see large deposits of stratified limestone. Just north of town, they are taking out a limestone hill and running it through the rock crusher for gravel. The layers appear to be about 6-8 inches thick. I would guess there are 20-30+ visible at a glance. When I was teaching, my kids used to collect pieces and bring them in. Careful examination would reveal many different types of fossil imprints in the layers of stone of creatures that lived in tropical waters. I believe those rock strata indicated that the land was once sea bottom. If I drive about 50 miles north, we start running into large deposits of granite and other similar outcroppings created by, imagine, volcanic activity. Ever been into Ontario? To the west of us in the mid section of the state, the land has been scraped flat and there are long ridges of earth and rock that have been 'pushed up' by something as well as rivers and lakes gouged out, could be a glacier maybe??? To the south is the 'Kettle Moraine' area so named because it is the terminal point of glacial activity. Scientists have estimated the last glaciers to be about 2 miles thick.
When I was in grad school, I had a prof who was extremely proud of the fact that he had never spent 1 day in a public high school. Always remember when these experts spout their theories that PHD also stands for 'Piled Hip Deep'.
Regards, Bob0 -
rack..here are the facts of life for you about the hole in the ozone layer!!!!!! until recent times they didnt even know it existed!!!!!...so how the hell would they know it wasnt there 10 000 years ago??per capita there are no more people dying here now from sun cancer than there were 100 years ago...we all here about how the ice is melting and sea levels are rising...over 150 years ago marks were left on the low and high tide lines here...they wer carved into the stone...guess what? there is no difference now...how can scientists explain that?...im looking forward to your answer rack 0 -
1972---> predicted a second ice age[;)][:D] 0 -
The hole in the "OZONE" layer still remains despite, "US" trying to fix it.
BTW I am not ragging on any posters and opinions. Just calling them a I see them.[:)]0 -
Since I don't know what's in store for the next generation and generations after that, and my crystal ball only shows me a New England snow scene (I have to shake it first), I'm going to sit out round two. But on my way out of this argument, I just want to make one comment:
Any "report" which makes statements like "For the first time in recorded history", and I know recorded history started in 1972, is suspect to me. Both sides of the argument tell you facts which are true and correct facts, but are misleading if you don't understand the context.
Reminds me of a commercial I heard on the radio for a brand of steel building. They mentioned that while Katrina was ripping up and destroying buildings, some lady in Lumberton, North Carolina had this brand of steel building and suffered no damage at all. What they didn't mention was Katrina didn't come within eight hundred miles of Lumberton, North Carolina.0 -
quote:Originally posted by CHEVELLE427
now they say it is going to get colder
http://www.spaceandscience.net/id16.html
I see the antartica ice caps are melting. Wonder why if it is getting "colder"?????0 -
I bet some knucklehead will get a Nobel Prize for the idea. 0 -
Ok dan, we'll start with this part of your statement/question
quote:Originally posted by dan kelly
per capita there are no more people dying here now from sun cancer than there were 100 years ago...
Its convenient that you'd use death rates to illustrate cancer levels in your country. I don't know how effective melanoma treatments were 100 hundred years ago, but now the survival rate is around 90% (in Australia). Way to spin that data mate!
I couldn't find Melanoma incidence data for Australia going back to 1908. The best I could do is back to 1982. The data is updated through 2003
1982 Melanoma rate: 26.7
2003 Melanoma rate: 46.9
http://www.aihw.gov.au/cognos/cgi-bin/ppdscgi.exe?DC=Q&E=/Cancer/cancernonageratesv20070 -
quote:Originally posted by Horney toad
I see the antartica ice caps are melting. Wonder why if it is getting "colder"?????
Well, I guess I lied. I just can't let this one slide.
If you read "round one" you have already seen these. Now if you post the one where you saw the Antarctic Ice Cap is melting, we will have the balance.
Warming Is Blamed for Antarctics`s Weight Gain
Warming Is Blamed for Antarctica's Weight Gain
By KENNETH CHANG
Published: May 20, 2005
The eastern half of Antarctica is gaining weight, more than 45 billion tons a year, according to a new scientific study.
Data from satellites bouncing radar signals off the ground show that the surface of eastern Antarctica appears to be slowly growing higher, by about 1.8 centimeters a year, as snow and ice pile up.
The gain in eastern Antarctica snow partly offsets the rise in sea level caused by the melting of ice and snow in other parts of the world. The finding also matches expectations that the earth's warming temperatures would increase the amount of moisture in the air and lead to greater snowfall over Antarctica.
''It's been long predicted by climate models,'' said Dr. Curt H. Davis, a professor of electrical and computer engineering at the University of Missouri and the lead author of a paper that was published on the Web site of the journal Science yesterday. ''This is the first observational evidence.''
The accumulation occurring across 2.75 million square miles of eastern Antarctica corresponds to a gain of 45 billion tons of water a year or, equivalently, the removal of the top 0.12 millimeter of the world's oceans.
''This is the only large terrestrial ice body that is likely gaining mass rather than losing it,'' Dr. Davis said.
The data, from two European Space Agency satellites, cover 1992 to 2003, but because the satellites do not pass directly over the South Pole, they did not provide any information for a 1,150-mile-wide circular area around the pole. Assuming that snow was falling there at the same rate seen in the rest of Antarctica, the total gain in snowfall would correspond to a 0.18-millimeter-a-year drop in sea levels.
The data also deepen a mystery: Satellite measurements show that the level of the world's oceans has been rising about three millimeters a year in recent years, and scientists cannot figure out where all of the water is coming from.
Because water expands when it warms, the rise in global temperatures by itself causes sea levels to rise about one millimeter a year. The melting of glaciers in Greenland, Antarctica and elsewhere appears to account for another millimeter or so.
That leaves ''at least a missing millimeter a year to explain,'' said Dr. Robert Thomas, a glaciologist who works with NASA. ''This is perhaps another reason to suggest the information that Curt has presented doesn't include the entire picture.''
Dr. Thomas said that there could be as-yet-unseen melting of ice along the edges of Antarctica, where the satellites could not map the steeper coastal topography.
The new study is ''another piece of the puzzle that we're still putting together,'' said Dr. Waleed Abdalati, head of the cryospheric sciences branch at NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center in Greenbelt, Md., who was not involved in the research.
West Antarctic ice sheet is thickening
AS ARCTIC ICE MELTS, SOUTH POLE ICE GROWS
THE NEXT ICE AGE-NOW!
Glaciers are growing around the world, including the United States0 -
supposed to be a high of 7*F saturday here in N. Illinois with a low near -10*F.[B)] 0 -
rack...the rates per capita havnt changed since people started to wear less clothes in their every day life...108 years ago people covered up completely, especially when they were at the beach, either that or they went to prison for offending public morals. i`ll go easy on you and say since the 19501s per capita the rates of skin cancer have not changed! that is medical fact!a lot of people get skin cancer here out of the total population of 22 million, and yes, most if they use their brain and notice something wrong will get treatment and will be cured..and before you say anything about the high incedence here...it never gets below zero "f" here in australia..i live in one of the coldest parts of the country and if it gets to -8 c it is concidered a dangerous tempreture...what is that?? about 22 degrees f ? wouldnt be far off i dont think...when i was living and working in north west queensland a tempreture in the shade of 45 to 50 degrees c...about 120 f wasnt unusual, so that might explain why my country has so many skin cancers...but the fact remains that PER CAPITA the numbers havnt changed!...i remember when the scientists "discovered" the hole in the ozone layer...doom, gloom, the sky is falling, the sky is falling..oh my god, what is the government going to do about this??? when they were asked how long the hole had been there they said they didnt know...in other words there is no way of knowing if its been there for 25 years or 2500 years.does that mean i think ozone dep;leting chemicals should be used still? of course not!..there have been a lot of chemicals used over the years that arent used now, why? because there are safer ones to use.the water level marks cut into the stone i mentioned are only about 2 1/2 hours from where i live, and i have spoken to scientists there who check the tides there often...what do they think about rising sea levels??...when they finish chuckling they wink and say the government pays them a lot of money to check those levels out but the levels havnt changed....that is what global warming comes down to... m.o.n.e.y....another excuse for governments to raise taxes from suckers!...the ship that takes scientists to antartica leave straight opposite from where i live, i talk to them all the time once they got to know me they would often laugh about how much money is to be made from shouting global warming. 0 -
From the Jun 24, 1974, Time Magazine, entitled: "Another Ice Age?"
As they review the bizarre and unpredictable weather pattern of the past several years, a growing number of scientists are beginning to suspect that many seemingly contradictory meteorological fluctuations are actually part of a global climatic upheaval. However widely the weather varies from place to place and time to time, when meteorologists take an average of temperatures around the globe they find that the atmosphere has been growing gradually cooler for the past three decades. The trend shows no indication of reversing. Climatological Cassandras are becoming increasingly apprehensive, for the weather aberrations they are studying may be the harbinger of another ice age.
Telltale signs are everywhere -from the unexpected persistence and thickness of pack ice in the waters around Iceland to the southward migration of a warmth-loving creature like the armadillo from the Midwest.Since the 1940s the mean global temperature has dropped about 2.7? F. Although that figure is at best an estimate, it is supported by other convincing data. When Climatologist George J. Kukla of Columbia University's Lamont-Doherty Geological Observatory and his wife Helena analyzed satellite weather data for the Northern Hemisphere, they found that the area of the ice and snow cover had suddenly increased by 12% in 1971 and the increase has persisted ever since. Areas of Baffin Island in the Canadian Arctic, for example, were once totally free of any snow in summer; now they are covered year round.
Scientists have found other indications of global cooling. For one thing there has been a noticeable expansion of the great belt of dry, high-altitude polar winds -the so-called circumpolar vortex-that sweep from west to east around the top and bottom of the world. Indeed it is the widening of this cap of cold air that is the immediate cause of Africa's drought. By blocking moisture-bearing equatorial winds and preventing them from bringing rainfall to the parched sub-Sahara region, as well as other drought-ridden areas stretching all the way from Central America to the Middle East and India, the polar winds have in effect caused the Sahara and other deserts to reach farther to the south. Paradoxically, the same vortex has created quite different weather quirks in the U.S. and other temperate zones. As the winds swirl around the globe, their southerly portions undulate like the bottom of a skirt. Cold air is pulled down across the Western U.S. and warm air is swept up to the Northeast. The collision of air masses of widely differing temperatures and humidity can create violent storms-the Midwest's recent rash of disastrous tornadoes, for example.
Sunspot Cycle. The changing weather is apparently connected with differences in the amount of energy that the earth's surface receives from the sun. Changes in the earth's tilt and distance from the sun could, for instance, significantly increase or decrease the amount of solar radiation falling on either hemisphere-thereby altering the earth's climate. Some observers have tried to connect the eleven-year sunspot cycle with climate patterns, but have so far been unable to provide a satisfactory explanation of how the cycle might be involved.
Man, too, may be somewhat responsible for the cooling trend. The University of Wisconsin's Reid A. Bryson and other climatologists suggest that dust and other particles released into the atmosphere as a result of farming and fuel burning may be blocking more and more sunlight from reaching and heating the surface of the earth.
Climatic Balance. Some scientists like Donald Oilman, chief of the National Weather Service's long-range-prediction group, think that the cooling trend may be only temporary. But all agree that vastly more information is needed about the major influences on the earth's climate. Indeed, it is to gain such knowledge that 38 ships and 13 aircraft, carrying scientists from almost 70 nations, are now assembling in the Atlantic and elsewhere for a massive 100-day study of the effects of the tropical seas and atmosphere on worldwide weather. The study itself is only part of an international scientific effort known acronymically as GARP (for Global Atmospheric Research Program).
Whatever the cause of the cooling trend, its effects could be extremely serious, if not catastrophic. Scientists figure that only a 1% decrease in the amount of sunlight hitting the earth's surface could tip the climatic balance, and cool the planet enough to send it sliding down the road to another ice age within only a few hundred years.
The earth's current climate is something of an anomaly; in the past 700,000 years, there have been at least seven major episodes of glaciers spreading over much of the planet. Temperatures have been as high as they are now only about 5% of the time. But there is a peril more immediate than the prospect of another ice age. Even if temperature and rainfall patterns change only slightly in the near future in one or more of the three major grain-exporting countries-the U.S., Canada and Australia -global food stores would be sharply reduced. University of Toronto Climatologist Kenneth Hare, a former president of the Royal Meteorological Society, believes that the continuing drought and the recent failure of the Russian harvest gave the world a grim premonition of what might happen. Warns Hare: "I don't believe that the world's present population is sustainable if there are more than three years like 1972 in a row."0 -
quote:Originally posted by dan kelly
i`ll go easy on you and say since the 19501s per capita the rates of skin cancer have not changed! that is medical fact!
I just posted the medical facts.
Since 1983, the skin cancer rate in your country has damn near doubled.0 -
quote:Originally posted by Rack Ops
quote:Originally posted by dan kelly
i`ll go easy on you and say since the 19501s per capita the rates of skin cancer have not changed! that is medical fact!
I just posted the medical facts.
Since 1983, the skin cancer rate in your country has damn near doubled.
Changes in clothing styles, tanning beds, and lack of informed and ignorant consumers are the leading causes.0 -
no, just more people are aware of it now..its a slow killer, mostly takes years...in the mean time people die for other reasons..the government spent 10`s of millions of dollars funding awareness programs...my father had a skin cancer on his leg...when the doctor told him it was skin cancer he just laughed and said it wont hurt being there doc, its been there like that without chanjing for 40 years...and no, he didnt die from skin cancer or any other type of cancer...100 years ago the population here was less than 8 million...and as i said people covered up because it was the done thing...sure there are more skin cancers now...there are 22 million people here now.awerness of skin cancer is high here now as well, kids have to wear wide brim hats at school or they arent allowd outside...sun screen is compulsory in schools as well...i am not for one minute saying that ulrta violey light doesnt cause skin cancer rack, and i`m not saying there is no hole in the ozone layer, what i am saying is that no-one knows how long the hole has been there!as i said it could have been there for thousands of years, or it could be a "new thing", there is no way of knowing, but to blame it on humans when there is no proof is dangerous....it is not politically correct to debunk global warming...anyone who doues is labelled a kook...like someone who says gun control is wrong..when you have vested interests getting paid a lot of money to spout on about it and a media who are pushing their own agenda supporting it anyone who tries to debate it is howled down...as i said, there is no PROOF of global warming, and a few storms and cyclones or floods and droughts dont mean that that is proof..there have always been droughts, storms floods and cyclones, and i`ll bet there always will be. 0 -
Civil Rights I remember that now that you mentioned it. 0 -
The Ozone Layer... Volcanoes spill more fluorocarbons in a year than all the air conditioners man could have ever made. So far the EPA and all other controlling organizations have been unsuccessful in attempts to enforce their rules on Mother Nature. I suspect the ozone hole to be nothing new.
Sea Levels... It might be noted that many of the ancient seaports noted in Greek and Mesopotamian texts were first dismissed as legends, then later found to be inland a considerable distance. How could that be? The seaside docks at Herculaneum are at above present sea level. Imagine that! Historic sites in England that we know were located on estuaries are now far from the sea.
Of course the opposite is true if we look at some of our barrier islands in the US, but they bear the brunt of every Atlantic storm and erosion is a fact that can't be ignored. Texas barrier islands and New Orleans might fare better had we not pumped untold barrels of oil, gas, and water out from under them. And maybe had we allowed the Mississippi River to do what it's done forever, then the delta might not be subsiding. But we're man. We know best, don't we?
Does anyone realize that the north polar icepack could totally melt tomorrow without affecting global sea levels measurably? And if we could measure, then a north polar melt would likely lower sea levels a bit... And increase potential evaporation.
The north polar pack floats on salt water, but is fresh water ice. Thus, it's less dense than sea water and displaces more than it weighs. Just a giant ice cube really. Remember that water has the unique trait of expanding when frozen.
Think about it for a minute or two. Fresh water will "float" on salt water because it's lighter. Take an empty paper cup and push it into a pan of water. The level will rise because our cup has displaced a volume of water. Allow the cup to fill and the water level will return to its original level other than for whatever is displaced by the now full cup itself. Remove the cup entirely and the water level will return to exactly where it was originally.
Our atmosphere contains huge quantities of water at any given moment. Any warming of ocean temperatures will result in added evaporation. Evaporation requires energy and the result is a cooling of the area where water was evaporated. Then comes condensation as the water vapor rises into a cooler atmosphere above with resulting rain. And rain will pick up heat on its journey back to earth as water.
In other words a heat transfer system. The more evaporation, the more surface cooling. The more water vapor in the atmosphere, the more rain. The more taking place, the better the heat pump works.
Now that I've explained this all to myself, I'm beginning to wonder if the global cooling guys might be on to something? Maybe we've had our warming. Maybe the warming process has been working quite nicely since the end of what we know as the Little Ice Age.
And just maybe all this warming will lead to cooling. Then again Al Gore invented the Internet and a great mind like his can't be all wrong, can it?[xx(]
Excuse me now... I've got to go and stoke the coal stove. I'm getting a bit cold and I'm trying to hold off the next ice age with my small contribution of greenhouse gas.[8D]0 -
quote:Originally posted by Civil Rights
From the Jun 24, 1974, Time Magazine, entitled: "Another Ice Age?"
The scientists who espoused "global cooling" in the 70s were never more than a fringe group, much like the scientists of today who insist that global warming is not happening.0 -
quote:Originally posted by dan kelly
sure there are more skin cancers now...there are 22 million people here now.
Do you understand the difference between the number of skin cancer cases vs. the skin cancer rate?
The rates I posted were adjusted for population.0 -
quote:Originally posted by nord
The Ozone Layer... Volcanoes spill more fluorocarbons in a year than all the air conditioners man could have ever made.
Volcanoes account for around 3% of the chlorine compounds in the stratosphere.....try again
http://www.epa.gov/ozone/science/volcano.html0 -
I stand corrected. Thank you.
Now then... It would appear that the ozone hole has been found to be much smaller (Winter 2006 as I recall) than in past years. Please enlighten me. And I really never had an opinion whether freon had much to do with overall warming anyway. After all, the "hole" lies largely over Antarctica.
More to the point (which I failed to properly put forward) is volcanic emissions in total. By this I mean total emissions, both atmospheric and undersea. Please again excuse me for not stating full-spectrum emissions rather than having singled out fluorocarbons.
I noticed that you failed to disagree about sea level or the effects of a northern polar melt, nor did you comment about the effects of increased evaporation and precipitation. Further, I believe that you may not realize that certain studies indicate our southern polar region seems to be in the process of cooling. Do you have data to the contrary?
Perhaps you think I argue that the earth seems generally warmer than when I was a child? I don't argue the point. I believe this to be generally true. Or perhaps more temperate would be a better description.
I do argue, though, that we humans have had much of an impact on warming or cooling in total. I don't believe it to be true.
This isn't to say that we should blindly pollute. This isn't to say that we shouldn't be good stewards to our tiny planet. But this IS to say that I believe we may well be doing the wrong things with the best of intentions.
There's a little prayer that may well apply here. It asks that we be given the strength to change the things we can, the fortitude to accept the things we can't, and the knowledge to know the difference.
I tend to side with those who advocate knowledge. Otherwise we may well take exactly the wrong course of action.
Mankind ISN'T all that smart!0 -
From a scientific and historical viewpoint we are overdue for a period of extreme cooling.... not necessarily an ice age, but colder temps. 0
Please sign in to leave a comment.
Comments
43 comments