Highjacked!
This is actually a thread for calling each other names. If you can't be an absolute jerk please participate elsewhere.
[:D]
There might be a real advantage to a government, bent on controlling its population, in respecting the 2nd Amendment. Completely doing away with any regulations concerning the RTKABA could be a grand propaganda coup.
A significant part of the population would perceive itself as being empowered again and stop "agitating" over the injustices of gun control. The political establishment could crow loudly about how it had restored the rights of Americans and claim whatever mandates it wanted to from the political capital it would reap.
While day to day safety from criminals would increase with the citizenries ability to personally protect themselves, their ability to protect themselves from their government would be hardly any different than it was with gun control. Government is always going to have a technological and organizational edge over its citizens. While there may be a few gun owners who would be able to organize themselves and afford technology that would be on a par with LE and the military, they will be the exception. Bread and circuses will be enough to distract most of the population from even bothering with firearms.
[:D]
There might be a real advantage to a government, bent on controlling its population, in respecting the 2nd Amendment. Completely doing away with any regulations concerning the RTKABA could be a grand propaganda coup.
A significant part of the population would perceive itself as being empowered again and stop "agitating" over the injustices of gun control. The political establishment could crow loudly about how it had restored the rights of Americans and claim whatever mandates it wanted to from the political capital it would reap.
While day to day safety from criminals would increase with the citizenries ability to personally protect themselves, their ability to protect themselves from their government would be hardly any different than it was with gun control. Government is always going to have a technological and organizational edge over its citizens. While there may be a few gun owners who would be able to organize themselves and afford technology that would be on a par with LE and the military, they will be the exception. Bread and circuses will be enough to distract most of the population from even bothering with firearms.
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Hand in my guns? What guns? I have no guns? sold'em off years ago, no guns here, guns are apparently bad, nope you dont need to look in that safe its empty, not a single AR-15 or 30-30, or a handgun or two.... 0 -
Highball:
That's the same story as Eliot Spitzer - claims God gave him the inalienable right to bang hookers. Can you prove him wrong? LMAO!
Get professional help. You've got some serious psychiatric issues. That nonstop paranoia reminds me of Obama's preacher.0 -
quote:Originally posted by triple223tap
Highball:
Get professional help. You've got some serious psychiatric issues. That nonstop paranoia reminds me of Obama's preacher.
Bull poop (and everyone knows what should be there) Highball is not paranoid. I have experienced first hand what can happen when a bunch of "do gooders" think they have the answer for the ills of society. So have the populations of Germany, Russia, China etc,...
Our rights come from a higher place than any government. They come from within. They come from the very human ability to judge between right and wrong and when it is not clear to wrestle with the decision. Christians call it providence. I am not sure what the proper agnostic term is but it is just as relevant with or without a deity getting involved.0 -
quote:Originally posted by triple223tap
Highball:
That's the same story as Eliot Spitzer - claims God gave him the inalienable right to bang hookers. Can you prove him wrong? LMAO!Doesn't matter what "god" gave him or not.
His WIFE didn't give him the right, and SHE is the one who he had the contract with.
He broke the contract with her, just as assuredly as Ken Lay of Enron did with his shareholders. In either case, it shows a pattern of "abuse of power" that should preclude him fom holding Office.
I'm a Libertarian. I don't care who bangs who. What I care about is hypocritical meanies who will arrest people for doing the same things they do.
Who bangs who and why is not a 2nd Amendment issue - except to the extent that the same meanies try to take MY RKBA away while ensuring THEY continue to have heavily armed guards.
If you want to talk "Psychiatric" issues, bring it on. I can show FAR more clearly that those who support Gun COntrol are psychiatricly unballanced than an absolutist Pro RKBA position is.
And FWIW, if you need a triple-tap of .223 to get your point across, you haven't been trained enough. [}:)]0 -
Old Iron.. My post above I was just trying to point out that there has to be some REASONABLE middle ground. I will say that I agree that those that carry concealed ought to be trained, not just in weapons handling, but in the laws that deal with when to shoot and when not too. I know this may not set well with many, but there are so many ignorant folks who are totally unfamiliar with the legal system that this should be incorporated with concealed carry, and the concealed carry ought to be "shall issue" along with some training in legal responsibility as well as safe weapons handling. I have faith that some idiot would screw this up because thats what idiots do best. Now I do not agree with FOID cards and that cow dung like what IL has, we do not have CCW AT ALL, and we should. I have been tempted to start carrying despite the law, but I would be alone in doing so and subject to a whole lotta trouble for myself. Some training, reasonable middle ground, thats doable for me, and somewhat more acceptable to the anti-gunners. I agree with almost everyone on these forums in regards to the second amendment (it would seem a bit silly to disagree) 0 -
I've got no problem with "training".
I've got BIG problems with "mandatory".
Should you be trained in Gun Handling? Absolutely.
Should I force you (note the word FORCE) to be trained? Absolutely NOT.
The Government is Force. The Government should have NO say in "training" anything except their own troops.
Period.
And, FWIW, I carry in Chicago.
5 women died in Tinley park because they trusted their lives to Emperor Daley and 911.
I prefer trusting my life to ME... and 9mm. (ok... .357... [;)])0 -
LOL I refuse to spend any amount of time in Daleyville, I would carry if I felt the need, and the only place I come close to feeling the need in at school (I attend Kishwaukee which is just down the road from Northern IL). I will however admit to having an ASP aka collapsible metal thumping stick 0 -
The training would be PUNISHMENT.
Punishment for stupidly flashing a gun around wantonly..someone shooting you.
An AD because you are stupid and fooling around with a gun in public place...prison term..and perhaps more.
The tv spends HOURS on homosexuality, who's screwing whom, and fat white guys with beautiful wives.
In an enlightened society, there would be some part of that time devoted to firearms training...and in and around EVERY TOWN in America would be public firing ranges...free for all to shoot..complete with an old Gunny willing to train anybody that comes along.0 -
In an enlightened society my fellow college students would know what the first ten amendments are, I ask them often and rarely can they tell me one out of the five parts of the first amendment, much less the second. we do not live in an enlightened society, and I doubt we will ever be as enlightened as you suggest. Keep in mind that our founding fathers did break the mold in many aspects, they were literate, and well read compared to the majority of that time. 0 -
quote:we do not live in an enlightened society, and I doubt we will ever be as enlightened as you suggest. Keep in mind that our founding fathers did break the mold
There is no possibility of EVER having a society like that as long as we gun owners are too ignorant to even conceive of it...is there ?
As long as the prevailing attitude is ..'God ..I am glad the government restricts firearms from this group...or that one", how can their possibly be advances made in the GENERAL population ?
Without educating GUN owners ..we have no chance at all with the totally clueless.
Unfortunately, Many if not most gun owners are `clueless'.witness this very forum, and the vitriolic attacks on those of us DARING to support the Constitution.
Takes no courage at all to attack a single man, standing alone. These people are scared snitless to actually point to the Beast and declare it hopelessly corrupt.0 -
I am afraid when we have let it go so far that the supreme court is going to have to pass judgment on something as simple as the language in the 2nd amendment, and the majority of the USA (or those who care) are sitting around arguing on what that outcome will be:
is that it's too late.
this is nothing but semantics, the language is plain and clear.
the 2nd has already been seriously infringed in major portions of the USA.
To me it is so much more than the second amendment though, we have a government using tax payer dollars to bail out private investment banks, the corruption is rampant and runs completely through the entire system.
In my humble opinon though, this country is not going to come apart from a civil war between the gun righters and the government.
It is going to become so financially insolvent that the other countries of the world are going to stop supplying us with goods, bringing on a depression the likes of which has not been seen in the last two generations.
With those happy thoughts I continue to stock up, learn to be self sufficient, and practice self defense for my family's sake.
My parents continue to be a source of perspective, they assure me that man without GOD is completely devoid of any good, and that there is absolutely nothing we can do to stop this, so try to enjoy your life and have your relationship with your CREATOR correct.
These threads are interesting to read though, since I firmly don't believe most americans are passive enough to turn in their firearms, or their bullion, or pay 80% taxes, which means there is a conflict coming sooner or later.
It gives me hope though, a day like today, when I'm out shooting and some old grandpa has his grandson out with a 22 rifle teaching him how to shoot.
On with the debate idiots! (kidding)0 -
Jesnisn;
I hammer on the Second Amendment for one purpose. It is a barometer of a mans' mind.
The ability to clearly understand what that Amendment MEANS is directly related to what kind of man you are.
The Founders CLEARLY understood that a government that sought to control firearms was an evil government.
We can do no less.
Naturally.a government that endlessly infringes the Second is also endlessly infringing on EVERY ASPECT OF AMERICAN LIFE..and more is the fool that thinks not.
However.I cannot spread myself over the millions of grievous incursions this rotten corrupt government has committed.
Therefore ..I confine myself to the ONE Amendment that will serve to right all those incursions.0 -
Thanks J now I don't feel like an idiot for stocking up on essentials, highball you are a nut and I like the way you think. the question isn't whether or not I'm willing to undertake the struggle you suggest, its how many others are. I doubt very much that there is any meaningful resolve past banter and discussion, I don't wish to appear as a defeatist, just more a realist. I don't like it, and I am doing my part by passing on my thoughts about these matters. Under no circumstances will I ever turn in my guns, nor will I suffer any fearful fool who wants to see them taken. I am currently attending college, and what bothers me is that "my" so called generation are a bunch of damn pansies who can't tell their arses from a hole in the ground. Over 100 students at NIU ran for their lives, and the ones who survived will forever be a "victim". This bothers me deeply. Not a single person in the hallways discussed the Heller case, most are more concerned about the battery level of their Ipod than they are about major constitutional issues. Doesn't matter which issue they don't care. If I've said it once I'll say it a hundred times guns don't teach violence, they instill responsibility and that is a lesson we desperately need in todays world. To allow a few idiots to screw things up for the rest of us is unacceptable.... I like what everyone has to say on these boards, even if I don't agree with it, its a remarkable tribute to the first amendment that we have these discussions. 0 -
Highball Posted:
I, on the other hand, recognize that there is INDEED a higher authority then government...I was given INALIENABLE Rights by that authority ..and I will resist until dead.
You are now free to go back to practicing your secular humanism on more gullible people.
Btw...the quotes you throw about with gay abandon can be countered by other quotes...all day long. You have proved nothing.
triple223tap:
In reference to your "well researched, well written" post of: 03/16/2008: 6:44:06 PM; It's always more interesting when you include your sources!!!
Atheist Alliance International
http://www.atheistalliance.org/library/morris-founding_fathers.php
The Founding Fathers Were NOT Christians
http://dim.com/~randl/founders.htm
BBC Will and testament | William Crawley's broadcasting diary
Post #14 (?? Curious)
Post #23: (Just two of the included quotes)
W. E. Gladstone: "I have known ninety-five of the world's great men in my time, and of these eighty-seven were followers of the Bible. The Bible is stamped with a Specialty of Origin, and an immeasurable distance separates it from all competitors."
George Washington: "It is impossible to rightly govern the world without God and the Bible."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/ni/2007/12/nick_clegg_i_dont_believe_in_g.html0 -
Thanks, Wagon Wheel;
I have spent my life countering the crap that spews out of the mouth of dung beetles ..and it never changes at all.
I grow old and tired ..digging out the truth and presenting it seems somehow ..yesterday.
I am about at the point of challenging only.if the w horshippers of the Beast want what is mine.screw them ..let them come and take them.
Debating them seems pointless, sometimes ..perhaps the time is coming where they will be presented with a brick wall.
That wall being..We that support the Constitution care not one bit what their opinion is ..nor how many laws their brothers in the Congress or Courts pass.
We that support the Constitution will protect that foundation against all enemies.foreign and domestic.0 -
Wagon Wheel,
Glad to see you back. It's been awhile.
Highball, I couldn't agree with you more (reference your last post).
To debate with these liberal do-gooders, really is pointless. They never consider our side of the debate (99% of the time anyway). They care NOT about our history, nor really care about the future of this country. For them, it's all about instant gradifaction and fear mongering, controling the rest of the citizenry, like they CHOOSE to be controled.
They desire NOT for personal responsibility and freedom. They are content with government ordering them around.
We on the other hand, are NOT. We demand freedom, truth, and the ability to prosper/fail on our own. We only demand what is RIGHTFULLY ours. Sure, we are willing to LISTEN to their side of things, but the line is drawn where there thoughts, INFRINGE on OUR RIGHTS.
I am in excellent company here. I again will say that you folks on this forum, are the best people I have had the fortune to know. The only thing better, would be if I had the cash in my pocket to meet you all in person.0 -
So, wagonwheel, just exactly is it you are trying to pull?
You post a link to Nick Clegg, as though it somehow supports your (and highball's) superstition about a supreme being having granted you the right to own firearms, and that Nick Clegg supports that fantasy, when the truth is that Nick does not say that at all.
Perhaps you think that everyone here is too stupid to follow and read YOUR link?
Wrong.0 -
We demand freedom, truth, and the ability to prosper/fail on our own.
Oh, BS. The "ability to prosper/fail on our own"? BS.
Come back and tell me that after you've home-schooled your children, after you've paid your own medical bills, after you've been the sole support of your elderly parents, after you've paid tolls for every road driven, after you've defended yourself against every criminal, after you've provided your own fire protection.
Can't talk? Of course not, you've got you lips locked on the g'mint teat.0 -
Highball Posted:
I, on the other hand, recognize that there is INDEED a higher authority then government...I was given INALIENABLE Rights by that authority ..and I will resist until dead.
Highball is a mental defective who believes in ghosts, goblins, spooks, the great cookie monster, the Easter bunny, warlocks and witches, Thor, Zeus, the Rain Gods, and other various and assorted imaginary beings.0 -
quote:Come back and tell me that after you've home-schooled your children, after you've paid your own medical bills, after you've been the sole support of your elderly parents, after you've paid tolls for every road driven, after you've defended yourself against every criminal, after you've provided your own fire protection.
Can't talk? Of course not, you've got you lips locked on the g'mint teat.
My income was taxed at 50 % for twenty years for those things you speak so glowing of...and 20-30 & for another 20 before that.
Go snuggle up to your daddy...the Beast.
What I would prefer is bloodsuckers like you have to actually find a real job and earn a living.0 -
Don't get your knickers in a knott, Chas..it often happens.
Were this a couple hundred years ago, I would be slapped in the face with a glove with great regularity...and the gravedigger would be busy with the business I gave him.
This is today...and it is easier to call names then refute the Second Amendment.
After awhile, even I enjoy a bit of mud-slinging.
When you wrap yourself in the cloak of those ancient heros..that being the Second Amendment..the slings and arrows of the stupid do no harm at all .Ignorance, you see...is what you are when you just don't know.
Stupid begins when the facts are all pointed out to a person...and that person refuses to accept them.0
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