Victim of the NRA.............................
Thought I would post this here, instead of GD for a change.
As many of you know, my NRA membership ends this November, and I have vowed to not renew for reasons we all know.
The gun range that I belong to has required the primary member (me), to be an NRA member.
Several of the members petitioned to have GOA accepted as an alternative. I thought it was going to fly, as they don't need to lose any more members.
Found out Friday via e-mail from the prez of the range, that if I do not renew my membership with the NRA, I will not be able to renew my membership at the range for next year.
I don't know how they have so much influence there, but it disgusts me, as I have met many folks there, and enjoy the facilities.
Really hate to leave, but I am standing on principle, with a few other members that are in the same boat. I returned his mail suggesting once again, to accept "alternatives", and that under NO circumstances would I be renewing my NRA membership.
I presume I will be trying to find a new place to shoot after the first of the year.[xx(]
As many of you know, my NRA membership ends this November, and I have vowed to not renew for reasons we all know.
The gun range that I belong to has required the primary member (me), to be an NRA member.
Several of the members petitioned to have GOA accepted as an alternative. I thought it was going to fly, as they don't need to lose any more members.
Found out Friday via e-mail from the prez of the range, that if I do not renew my membership with the NRA, I will not be able to renew my membership at the range for next year.
I don't know how they have so much influence there, but it disgusts me, as I have met many folks there, and enjoy the facilities.
Really hate to leave, but I am standing on principle, with a few other members that are in the same boat. I returned his mail suggesting once again, to accept "alternatives", and that under NO circumstances would I be renewing my NRA membership.
I presume I will be trying to find a new place to shoot after the first of the year.[xx(]
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quote:Originally posted by Marc1301
quote:Originally posted by trapguy2007
quote:Originally posted by Marc1301
Here is my latest thought.
Even if they get their insurance from the NRA, and even if they get 5 bucks for every member that buys their membership through the club, what does that have to do with anything?
I know of very few folks that became NRA members through the club, so the kickback can't be the reason. I am sure that the incentives exist for the memberships they sell though.
Why are they willing to lose paying members, over a 5 buck kickback?
What if I renewed by another means?
They didn't get anything from my last 3 year membership in the first place.
Just so it is clear,........they are not demanding me to renew through the club, only that I have an active NRA membership on file.
I am very curious as to what is the REAL reason behind all of this.
Why not ask ?I believe it will be the insurance .
Roger
Roger,......I did ask, in the letters that I sent out to 7 board members. I now must give them time to respond by regular mail.
The only one of the "wimps" that I can speak to by phone is the Treasurer.
As above,.....no answers, only asking me to go along.
Maybe Highball is correct, and the NRA is operating as a "Mafia" type organization. I didn't think of it that way, until I re-read his post.
Are you saying that as a condition of having liability insurance for the range through the NRA,........they can dictate a pre-condition of coverage, that all primary members of the club must be NRA members,......."one way, or the other?"
If this is the case, it only makes me more ticked off at ALL of them![xx(]
Marc; I believe(?) at one time everybody had to be a member to have their ins.
Please do not quote me as I am not 100% sure .
Like you ,I don't believe in go along to get along .
I will check on this with our club lawyer tomorrow at our trap league
,if it does not rain .
I am now wondering myself .0 -
quote:Originally posted by Don McManus
quote:Originally posted by trapguy2007
Why not ask ?
I believe it will be the insurance.
Roger
If that is the case, which is possible, it would be very interesting if it was a decree by the NRA or a local club decision. My range offers half-price membership (appx.) for NRA members, but does not require NRA membership. They do not recognize GOA membership.
If it is a local club decision, so be it, the club has the right to do what they want. If it is a decree by the NRA, it would still be their right, but it certainly puts the lie to the concept that the NRA is truly interested in supporting gun owners as compared to simply lining their own pockets.
Marc, is there any chance you can find this out specifically? It would be good information for the the NRA lovers on this site.
I have all of my ins. through Alfa ins. in Alabama.
I have to be a member of the state association(they do lobby state gov. )in order to buy their ins .
I think it would be reasonable to assume the NRA might mandate the same .
Don't know for sure ,but plan to ask .
Roger0 -
At the very LEAST the NRA ought to take the stand that it would be perfectly okay with them if members joined ANY pro-gun organization instead of them.
Most of these clubs are run by people that have been members of the NRA for life...and they will hear no critisism of their lifeline.0 -
quote:Originally posted by Highball
At the very LEAST the NRA ought to take the stand that it would be perfectly okay with them if members joined ANY pro-gun organization instead of them.
Most of these clubs are run by people that have been members of the NRA for life...and they will hear no critisism of their lifeline.
I see no problem with that .
Roger0 -
Update folks!
First off there was a board meeting last night,........board only of course.
The Treasurer just called me again, and I am fresh off of a 30 minute conversation with him.
Onto the points:
Yes,.......the NRA requirements are due to the fact that the NRA is the insurance carrier.
I was also correct in what I said in reference to any grants from the NRA, for shooting programs for the club,.........there are none at this point, or going back in time.
In a nutshell, Highball was largely correct, as they are running a "protection racket" per se, to provide them with liability insurance, and that is where the requirement comes from.
On a positive note,.....the Treasurer that I referred to as a wimp, is really not that bad of a guy. He asked me once more to just take out an NRA membership from them that is only 10 bucks a year,.......you don't get the magazines though,......oh no![:0]
I got right to the point, and told him if he gave me a free NRA membership that I would not carry the card. I went into details this time, and told him of my belief that they are conspiring with politicians to compromise our gun rights away. I also told him they are running a "racket" in requiring membership quotas in order to provide insurance.
I made the point that their insurance side is a separate entity, and should operate as such. Take the premiums with no shakedown conditions, or get out of the game. I also made the point that other gun rights memberships should be accepted once more.
Guess what,........he agreed with me, and told me he largely feels the same way about the NRA in terms of selling our rights down the river. He brought up GOA at the meeting, and the board is going to consider it,...........sure they will check the insurance contract first.
Now for Don, and any that want direct info,........I was told that the NRA insurance conditions are 50% of the membership must be NRA members, and that the "primary member" issue, is a "suggestion" from the NRA to get way above 50%. It appears the 50% is "mandatory" at this point for their policy. He told me it runs about $5,000.00 a year.
Also for Roger,.....I was correct in thinking the membership is dropping. Current numbers are about 275 members,.........not including family of course, but it HAS shrunk.
I have tried to find out, and provide all of the real info that I can for any that were interested.
Now onto my final issue!
The Treasurer,......whose name is Bob H., told me to simply renew next year minus my NRA membership. He says he handles all of the money, and the needed forms, and no one else will know that I am not an NRA member any longer. He also hopes to get things changed as far as accepting other organizations soon,..........as long as their membership number stays above 50% NRA. He said it is way over that number as of now.
Am I a hypocrite if I remain a club member this "undercover" way, and try to stay and have influence going forward?
Or,........should I just walk away at the end of 2008?
Sorry for the novel, but I think that a few here wanted to hear about what I have learned.
BTW,.........one of the other "dissenters", is the only person beyond me to carry it this far. I also learned that in the conversation.
It was the one person in my gut that I felt would follow through.[;)]
Tell me what you think,.......either way.0 -
Infiltrating the enemy is never a bad thing, if you intend working to dismantle them.
Working from that platform, being inside is better then outside.
That being said...how many people are aware that you have kicked up a fuss ? Remaining in the club with the false mantle of the `NRA' crown on your head will appear to them that you have folded..
The way around that is to set in on meeting and continue kicking up the fuss...
My prime example is CCW. Any intelligent being OUGHT to understand that it is a sell-out of our precious Rights.
One might GET IT...ANYWAY...with the understanding that some day it might be the edge allowing you to get to your rifle...0 -
That HB,this is funny from you. When an NRA member has anything to do with the anti-gun bunch this is unforgiveable. But it's ok for those on your side to associate with the 'enemy'! [}:)]
Thus the 'unconventional', 'sneek and peek', type of action I refered to earlier.[;)]0 -
quote:Originally posted by Highball
Infiltrating the enemy is never a bad thing, if you intend working to dismantle them.
Working from that platform, being inside is better then outside.
That being said...how many people are aware that you have kicked up a fuss ? Remaining in the club with the false mantle of the `NRA' crown on your head will appear to them that you have folded..
The way around that is to set in on meeting and continue kicking up the fuss...
My prime example is CCW. Any intelligent being OUGHT to understand that it is a sell-out of our precious Rights.
One might GET IT...ANYWAY...with the understanding that some day it might be the edge allowing you to get to your rifle...
Highball,.......all 7 of the board members are aware of my "fuss", as I sent them all letters in the mail.
I can think of 6 members that know for sure what has been going on.
Your points are exactly why I asked the question.
I do NOT want to appear that I have "folded."
I will not tell anyone that I renewed, and I may get further calls, or possibly letters in the coming weeks from the mail I sent out,........maybe not. It will be clear that I am no longer NRA affiliated to anyone that speaks to me.
All I can add to what I already wrote is,.......I think they are more interested in keeping me as a member, than pushing this to the potential outcome.
I was surprised to hear that the Treasurer actually agreed with me in principle. He said he just was not as "hard line" as me, and goes along. He now understands that I am a bit different.
I have until the end of 2008, and I believe I will see what happens in the interim before making my final decision.
At least I have found out a lot that I didn't know before, about the inner workings of this.0 -
quote:That HB,this is funny from you. When an NRA member has anything to do with the anti-gun bunch this is unforgiveable. But it's ok for those on your side to associate with the 'enemy'!
Thus the 'unconventional', 'sneek and peek', type of action I refered to earlier.
Now why should that surprise you, Jim ?
Let me see if I can make this even plainer...since it appears the level of comprehension is limited.
Associating with the enemy and being CONVERTED by that enemy is what I decry..for you have become what you fought.
Associating with the enemy for the purpose of sticking (figuratively speaking here) a knife in where they live is a FAR different matter.
See...that is what I see the NRA doing. They associate with us..so they can find the soft spots for the knife thrust. They use people like you, Jim...and TrFox for this purpose.0 -
quote:Originally posted by Marc1301
Update folks!
...
Now for Don, and any that want direct info,........I was told that the NRA insurance conditions are 50% of the membership must be NRA members, and that the "primary member" issue, is a "suggestion" from the NRA to get way above 50%. It appears the 50% is "mandatory" at this point for their policy. He told me it runs about $5,000.00 a year.
...
Also for Roger,.....I was correct in thinking the membership is dropping. Current numbers are about 275 members,.........not including family of course, but it HAS shrunk.
I have tried to find out, and provide all of the real info that I can for any that were interested.
Now onto my final issue!
The Treasurer,......whose name is Bob H., told me to simply renew next year minus my NRA membership. He says he handles all of the money, and the needed forms, and no one else will know that I am not an NRA member any longer. He also hopes to get things changed as far as accepting other organizations soon,..........as long as their membership number stays above 50% NRA. He said it is way over that number as of now.
Am I a hypocrite if I remain a club member this "undercover" way, and try to stay and have influence going forward?
Or,........should I just walk away at the end of 2008?
Thanks, Mark.
I frankly can understand the NRA position, and 50%, though somewhat arbitrary, seems reasonable. One can quibble, but they are providing a service. As noted previously, my range offers membership to non-NRA members at a rate that is higher than what membership would cost. I assume they easily meet the 50% requirement if that indeed is in place.
Another point is that one would hope the majority in the NRA leadership believes as do many on this forum, that their method of fighting for the RKBA is correct, proper, and is working. Many do not understand the inherent irony in issuing licenses for Concealed Carry to those that demonstrate they do not need to be monitored, and many can actually swallow the 'Right to Carry Holder' mantra, a concept I cannot hope to get my mind around.
Are you a hypocrite? No more than am I in supporting a range that is associated with the NRA. I do not dismiss or degrade the NRA when at the range, though have mentioned the sell-out that is the Heller decision on more than one occasion, and (I think) have changed more some minds. I do not view it as sleeping with the enemy, simply associating with them and giving them something to think about.
If the folks at the range are good people, they will at a minimum understand where you are coming from. In the end you will find more than a few that will truly understand the concept and will agree with and support you.
Good luck,
Don0 -
Hb, I think you are highjacking this thread, now stop that right now![}:)] 0 -
quote:Originally posted by Jim Rau
Hb, I think you are highjacking this thread, now stop that right now![}:)]
He has my permission to hijack it,........if that matters.0 -
Ok, with your permission![;)] 0 -
quote:Originally posted by Jim Rau
Ok, with your permission![;)]
Jim,.........I am not being a wiseacre, just that I have posted all that I can for the time being.
It matters not to me where this heads going forward.[;)]0 -
I am not either. It's hard to tell the intent of the poster when you can't hear their 'voice' or 'see' his/her face. That is why many of these posts are taken wrong, and the SHTF.
When I use the [;)] it means, 'take it lightly please'.[:)]0 -
Marc, ask yourself this question....do you really need them and their range. 0 -
Marc;
Definitely do things above board.
Nobody will be able to point fingers later .0 -
Marc, the ONLY way I would continue membership is IF EVERYONE knew I was no longer a member of the NRA and the treasurer OK'd it.
Those guys took a stand, just like you did. They would be rather disappointed if they thought otherwise, wouldn't they?0 -
Live is all about decissions. Marc, do what you feel is best, and live with what ever you decide![;)] 0 -
quote:Originally posted by freemind
Marc, the ONLY way I would continue membership is IF EVERYONE knew I was no longer a member of the NRA and the treasurer OK'd it.
Those guys took a stand, just like you did. They would be rather disappointed if they thought otherwise, wouldn't they?
Freemind,.....I am a bit confused by the above?
Are you referring to the board members that demand NRA membership, and me sneaking through because of the Treasurer?
OR,........are you talking about the handful of other members that have the same issue as I do?
If that is what you are talking about,.......there is only one, as I mentioned above that has taken it as far as I have.
I am quite certain the rest will simply "go along", and buy their memberships to the NRA.
For now, I am simply waiting to see if I get any responses from the other board members that I mailed.
It would be pretty difficult for me to make it known to the entire membership that I was no longer NRA, as I only really "know" about a dozen folks there, and most of the membership rarely shoot. I can't figure out why they are members.
It's not like we wear our NRA card with our club badge.
If I renew it will be very clear to any that ask that I am no longer an NRA member,........I don't know what else to do, except to wear a sign on my back saying so. The folks shooting don't give a damn per se, and it doesn't come up in conversation.
I started this whole thing with the club, by writing the president of the range, and telling him that I would not be renewing my membership in the NRA, and asking how that would affect me. His response was what started this thread. At this point, I bet if I had not said anything, they would never have even checked my NRA membership next year, but I wanted to be honest, and wrote the letter.
I believe the best thing to do, is to wait for a response, and if I get none from the others, I will write the pres. again, and inform him of what I have found out, in terms of 50% being required due to their insurance. At that point I can say simply, "do you want me to renew,......or not?", and making it clear that I will not lie if asked by anyone.
Even if the president approves the deal, and also allows the others to not renew, it's not like we can walk around with "NRA Sucks" T-shirts on,.......that won't fly.
It really is becoming even less of a big thing for me, as today I ran into my GC friend Al, and he told me I can shoot out there anytime I want to, as long as it is not after dark,......duh,....he has no lights out there![:D]
His "range" is a long ways from his house, and there is a back entrance gate to his property that he would give me a key to. We have known each other for around 12 years. Plus it's free, AND I can shoot my AR, and AK out there instead of going to the national forest range, which is a circus.
When this is resolved,......I will post what the final results were.0 -
Good luck in your quest![:)] 0 -
Without the building planning help and legal help from the NRA, few of the private gun ranges that exist would not exist. Or continue to exist. The gun ranges MUST have insurance. Otherwise, if somebody gets hurt, you as member could be named in a lawsuit. Don't believe me? Check with a knowledgeable lawyer. Believe me, most people are tight, so if the range officers could find cheaper insurance somewhere other than the NRA they would jump on it.
Course, the NRA is not good enough for some here or never does anything "quite" right; at least for them.0 -
They should stick to being an insurance company, not pretending they defend my RKBA while writing legislation to the contrary. Good thing the black robes didn't decide properly in "Heller". The NRA would have been out of business, except for insurance that is. 0 -
Here Here Sir,
I think it is outrageous a range is blackmailing you to join the NRA, I am also an NRA member, and I applaud your decision.
I have quit one range in my location for other reasons, it does seem to me that some ranges are very controlling of their members, which strikes me as strange, as gunners are a rather obstinate and independent sort. I have simply made my own range in the mountains, which has served me even better and without restrictions.
Speaking of the NRA, one concern I am presently investigating, is the connection to the GOP. I am a Libertarian and while I appreciate the support of gunners in the GOP there are substantial issues I cannot accept in the Republican Party, looking at the ads in the NRA they look like they come straight out of the GOP. I want my gun organization to do everything they can to safeguard 2nd amendment rights, and that means getting in bed with Republicans, Democraps and whatever other demonic forces (: are out there to secure gun rights, but I also do not want my support of the NRA to directly support any particular party.0 -
quote:Originally posted by jpwolf
They should stick to being an insurance company, not pretending they defend my RKBA while writing legislation to the contrary. Good thing the black robes didn't decide properly in "Heller". The NRA would have been out of business, except for insurance that is.
That is exactly the point, jp. The NRA does certain things well, including the advancement of the shooting sports through training, ranges, and even legislation.
The NRA fails as the standard bearer for the protection of the 2nd Amendment primarily because the organization is in bed with the politicians from whom the 2nd is designed to protect us. A cynical statement, yes it is. The only other option is that they simply cannot grasp the meaning of the terms 'Free State' or 'Right'.0 -
Since this is active again, I will add the latest info,.........which is pretty much the final deal.
I got an e-mail from the President several days ago. The jist of it was they wanted me to renew, and that I need not be an NRA member.
He had read my letter, and said that it was fine to make it known to the folks that I associate with out there, and they are allowing the several other "revolutionaries" out of the membership requirement also.
He said if I was to do anything crazy like put up items on the Bulletin board, or wear any "anti NRA" apparel, that I would be asked to leave.
They are going to consider doing what some of the other posters have said, and have a membership that is non-NRA, and it would be say $125.00 / year instead of $100.00,.........he feels they will continue to stay considerably above the required 50% of membership.
BTW,........I received no other communications from any of the other letters sent![:0]
Guess it's ok, as I ended up hearing from the top guy.
So anyway,......I am set to renew on 1/1/2009, with no NRA membership, and I don't have to attempt to hide the fact.
The interesting fact will take place when the next club meeting takes place in December. They are going to bring this up, so all of the lifetime NRA members, will find out about the change in policy.
Ought to be interesting, and yes, I will be there. I figure to get some dirty looks and some preaching to afterwards.[:D]
Fortunately I am not the type that really cares much,.......actually it will give me an opportunity to get on my "pulpit" per se!0 -
quote:Originally posted by Marc1301
Since this is active again, I will add the latest info,.........which is pretty much the final deal.
I got an e-mail from the President several days ago. The jist of it was they wanted me to renew, and that I need not be an NRA member.
He had read my letter, and said that it was fine to make it known to the folks that I associate with out there, and they are allowing the several other "revolutionaries" out of the membership requirement also.
He said if I was to do anything crazy like put up items on the Bulletin board, or wear any "anti NRA" apparel, that I would be asked to leave.
They are going to consider doing what some of the other posters have said, and have a membership that is non-NRA, and it would be say $125.00 / year instead of $100.00,.........he feels they will continue to stay considerably above the required 50% of membership.
BTW,........I received no other communications from any of the other letters sent![:0]
Guess it's ok, as I ended up hearing from the top guy.
So anyway,......I am set to renew on 1/1/2009, with no NRA membership, and I don't have to attempt to hide the fact.
The interesting fact will take place when the next club meeting takes place in December. They are going to bring this up, so all of the lifetime NRA members, will find out about the change in policy.
Ought to be interesting, and yes, I will be there. I figure to get some dirty looks and some preaching to afterwards.[:D]
Fortunately I am not the type that really cares much,.......actually it will give me an opportunity to get on my "pulpit" per se!
Great news Marc. Even better, they are comfortable with you not hiding the fact of not having a NRA membership.
This give you the chance to speak to others. Unfortunately, some will be as bone headed as TR.0 -
All of the old-timers will keep doing exactly what they do.
Most are "lifers", and a few of them won't even speak to me as it is, because of some of the things they have overheard me say.
Those types,.......no one is going to change their minds anyway.
One old fellow I got into a conversation with over a year ago, was trying his best to get around my points of "compromising."
He finally gave up, and basically admitted what I was specifically saying was true.
Guess where he went, and finished with before walking away in a huff?
"Well,.....they may compromise with the politicians, but you wouldn't even be able to own those guns of yours without the NRA."
Typical.[xx(]0 -
quote:but you wouldn't even be able to own those guns of yours without the NRA."
It amazes me that people think the "right" can be taken. It can only be "given" willingly by those too limp wristed to stand up and say NO!0 -
Way to go Marc!! You stood up for what is right and are welly respected for it.
That's a plus in my book. Our fore fathers would be proud.[;)]0
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