No Right is Absolute;
The debate has raged concerning whether any Right enumerated in the BOR is `Absolute'.
Well;
Of course those stoutly protesting that they are not absolute ARE CORRECT !! EVERY Right MUST have some limitations, in order for any sort of society to work.
Look at the Second Amendment, for instance; Unfettered, uncontrolled access to weapons would lead to a breakdown of Society in short order.
No..there MUST be controls of some sort.
Given the wording of the second Amendment, it is readily apparent that the Founders intended allowing decent citizens an unprecedented level of responsibility for maintaining the Republic.and they intended allowing that by force of Arms, when it became necessary.
Trust me on this...those wise men KNEW it would once again come to force of arms ..thus the REASON for the Second.
The `controls' The Anti-gunners screech about WERE intended by the Founders;
Those controls to take the form of swift, speedy trials and hangings for the vicious animals roaming the streets, victimizing innocent people.
Executing animals is the limits of governmental power over weapons.
One is left to wonder WHY gun-owners INSIST upon punishing everybody in this country for the misdeeds of the few. Instead of DEMANDING that criminals be subjected to proper justice ..they demand that decent citizens bear the burden of universal gun control.
I feel that strongly distrusting those that advocate gun control is a worthy endeavor...and is the sign of a healthy American attitude.
I find no common ground with gun controllers..and it is painfully obvious that while the common language is English.. words mean RADICALLY different things depending upon the point of view.
Four Simple words .."Shall Not Be Infringed" somehow morphs into "government has the authority and the duty to restrict firearms to whomever it pleases..."
No common ground at all, folks...and better the line clearly and cleanly drawn between perversion and common sense.
Well;
Of course those stoutly protesting that they are not absolute ARE CORRECT !! EVERY Right MUST have some limitations, in order for any sort of society to work.
Look at the Second Amendment, for instance; Unfettered, uncontrolled access to weapons would lead to a breakdown of Society in short order.
No..there MUST be controls of some sort.
Given the wording of the second Amendment, it is readily apparent that the Founders intended allowing decent citizens an unprecedented level of responsibility for maintaining the Republic.and they intended allowing that by force of Arms, when it became necessary.
Trust me on this...those wise men KNEW it would once again come to force of arms ..thus the REASON for the Second.
The `controls' The Anti-gunners screech about WERE intended by the Founders;
Those controls to take the form of swift, speedy trials and hangings for the vicious animals roaming the streets, victimizing innocent people.
Executing animals is the limits of governmental power over weapons.
One is left to wonder WHY gun-owners INSIST upon punishing everybody in this country for the misdeeds of the few. Instead of DEMANDING that criminals be subjected to proper justice ..they demand that decent citizens bear the burden of universal gun control.
I feel that strongly distrusting those that advocate gun control is a worthy endeavor...and is the sign of a healthy American attitude.
I find no common ground with gun controllers..and it is painfully obvious that while the common language is English.. words mean RADICALLY different things depending upon the point of view.
Four Simple words .."Shall Not Be Infringed" somehow morphs into "government has the authority and the duty to restrict firearms to whomever it pleases..."
No common ground at all, folks...and better the line clearly and cleanly drawn between perversion and common sense.
0
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quote:Originally posted by tr fox
quote:Originally posted by Don McManus
It has been said so well by so many.
The founders envisioned a lot of what could go wrong, but I would suggest that the rejection of personal responsibility by such a large portion of our society was not one of those.
Personal responsibility is being eliminated concurrent with the reduction in liberties and freedom. An obvious correlation that is lost on many. The more people are regulated, the less they feel responsible for their actions. Again, an obvious correlation.
Personal freedom and liberty beget personal responsibility as well as require it. As HB noted, gun rights in today's America are directed at controlling those that abide by the law, whereas the proper action is to control those that do not.
In red above. Very, very true. But the first step in doing as you suggest is to make sure you have two catagories of gun owners. The legal and the illegal gun owners. Then when the criminals committ crimes with their illegal guns, and the majority of the public who does not own guns suggests outlawing ALL guns, we legal gun owners can counter with the fact that only the ILLEGAL gun owners are causing the problem.
For another examaple, if you yourself want to sell a gun, don't you want some way to be sure you are not selling to a convicted, violent criminal who may be very, very likely to use that gun against an innocent person (maybe you or a loved one)? So if true, how can you be able to think you are selling to a lawful citizen if there is not some way to tell the difference?
Anyone still alive and not in prison should fit that description nicely.0 -
HB,wsfiredude,it496, rtkba4ever i have been following closely all you guys responses here lately. Just to let you guys know keep it up it is working you are making a difference. I to have been guilty of supporting the NRA and its policies and but no longer! As of last week i have called them and cancelled my membership. I will no longer support any organazation that so willfully craps on the Constitution! I thought i was a supporter of the Constitutioin but after a little common sense thought and research ive seen otherwise. i reject any and all infrinments of mine and yours and everyone elses Constitutional rights be it the 2nd amendment or any of the others for that matter! Keep it up you guys your 3% just got a little bigger! 0 -
originally posted by brickmaster1248:
HB,wsfiredude,it496, rtkba4ever i have been following closely all you guys responses here lately. Just to let you guys know keep it up it is working you are making a difference. I to have been guilty of supporting the NRA and its policies and but no longer! As of last week i have called them and cancelled my membership. I will no longer support any organazation that so willfully craps on the Constitution! I thought i was a supporter of the Constitutioin but after a little common sense thought and research ive seen otherwise. i reject any and all infrinments of mine and yours and everyone elses Constitutional rights be it the 2nd amendment or any of the others for that matter! Keep it up you guys your 3% just got a little bigger!
brickmaster,
[;)][:D]. A man that can think for himself. A rarity these days.
To trfox and others who consistently bombard a few on here with , "Well, what are you doing for gun rights?" (Actually, it's "the right of the people" not "the right of the gun", but we'll save that for later discussion).
Being vigilant in posting the truth will provoke more folks to do research, and ask questions, like;
"What does the RTKBA really mean?"
"Does this candidate/entity/organization that I support really stand behind the Constitution, and if not, then why should I continue to support them?"
So, to answer the question of, "What are you doing for RTKBA?"
Simple; We are just stating the truth. That's it. That's all it is, and for some, that is all it takes.0 -
As usual,.....this has become another argument about the same issue.
Do we "bend over" 95% plus, of the population, to "protect" us falsely, from perhaps 5% or less?
Freedom, and self reliance is a "bummer" in todays world, as one must take responsibility for their own actions.
It seems much more convenient to feel "secure" in the myriad of laws that are not enforced, and to invent even more.
It makes the masses of sheep "feel good", even though no effect is seen.
I wish someone could show me evidence that ANY of these inane procedures, and laws, have prevented a criminal mind from carrying out what is in their diseased craniums!
Fire away,........IF you can.[xx(]0 -
quote:Originally posted by brickmaster1248
HB,wsfiredude,it496, rtkba4ever i have been following closely all you guys responses here lately. Just to let you guys know keep it up it is working you are making a difference. I to have been guilty of supporting the NRA and its policies and but no longer! As of last week i have called them and cancelled my membership. I will no longer support any organazation that so willfully craps on the Constitution! I thought i was a supporter of the Constitutioin but after a little common sense thought and research ive seen otherwise. i reject any and all infrinments of mine and yours and everyone elses Constitutional rights be it the 2nd amendment or any of the others for that matter! Keep it up you guys your 3% just got a little bigger!
Glad to hear it Brick.
The world certainly needs more men and women that can think for themselves. One's that are not too lazy to do a little research.
Welcome to reality friend.0 -
Congrats Brickmaster on being able to see the truth for what it is,........TRUTH. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by brickmaster1248
HB,wsfiredude,it496, rtkba4ever i have been following closely all you guys responses here lately. Just to let you guys know keep it up it is working you are making a difference. I to have been guilty of supporting the NRA and its policies and but no longer! As of last week i have called them and cancelled my membership. I will no longer support any organazation that so willfully craps on the Constitution! I thought i was a supporter of the Constitutioin but after a little common sense thought and research ive seen otherwise. i reject any and all infrinments of mine and yours and everyone elses Constitutional rights be it the 2nd amendment or any of the others for that matter! Keep it up you guys your 3% just got a little bigger!
[^][^]Brother Brick. [;)]
I appreciate your posting this. It makes a difference to know that some are listening, verifying information and thinking for themselves.0 -
quote:Originally posted by Marc1301
Freedom, and self reliance is a "bummer" in todays world, as one must take responsibility for their own actions.
There are some people, on both sides of the camp, that call this "anarchy". Go figure...0 -
brickmaster1248;
Allow me to thank YOU...for having the intellectual honesty to step out and make that public statement.
Takes a Man to do so..and there are precious few out there. Perhaps down the line you might consider the Canary Asses an asset to your resume'. [:D]0 -
Wow.After reading some of these posts, I have to go throw up.
TRFOX- Your gun control advocacy never ceases to amaze. It is impressive how you never let logic get in the way of your positions.
Great topic highball.0 -
And for the Lords sake..there is Salzo !! ANOTHER fine candidate for inclusion !!
You post so infrequently ..mores the pity !! Your posts are always eagerly read, for my part.0 -
quote:Originally posted by Canary ass no. 1
And for the Lords sake..there is Salzo !! ANOTHER fine candidate for inclusion !!
You post so infrequently ..mores the pity !! Your posts are always eagerly read, for my part.
Salzo, absolutely.
A big yes on Brother brick also.
You know, we need to pull this together again.
It is getting spread out on different threads again and frankly, I am losing track of those recently inducted and their numbers and those proposed and mentioned for membership.0 -
quote:It is getting spread out on different threads again and frankly, I am losing track of those recently inducted and their numbers and those proposed and mentioned for membership.
You, TOO ? I feel better now...though it was just ME, here...[:D]
We have Inducted Loko No. 10....
There is a half-dozen more that have been mentioned..but no response from them yet.
KyPlumber is also a likely candidate.
Frankly...I am AMAZED beyond all recognition..I just never realized there were this many. We are truly blessed.0 -
All this 'talk' on on these 'threads'!!![:(]
As I said when I got involved hundreds of posts ago.[|)]
It all boils down to way it should be, IDEALISM! Compared to how it will be, REALISM! [;)]
Bye the way HB, I spent my life supporting and defending the constitution. I have the wounds/scars to show it. You wouldn't have any idea, other than talk, what it means to DEFEND THE CONSTITUTION!!![V]0 -
Wasn't even aware of the direction this thread had taken. Another one!!![;)] Better pay more attention.
Jim, judging from your posts, you have no idea what it is to defend the Constitution. You have deluded yourseld into thinking that "compromise" is defense. Nothing even close to defending. The process for ANY changes to the COnstitution is NEVER followed. I think the only thing about these compromises is that both sides agree to ignore her. Much to our detriment. If she was adhered to as intended, we would still be what we were, what was intended. But instead, we ignore and are nearing the end of the great experiment. How the founders could have been so far sighted (they knew this would happen) and our present society could be so short sighted, is incredible. It boils down to this...we have become a self centered society.0 -
Wolf,
Check your facts before you put your foot in your mouth!!![|)]
I guess you must not know how to read!! If you do check back at what hsa been said over last month or so!!![;)]0 -
Sorry Jim Rau;
You have spent your life defending what you imagined to be the Constitution.
It is perfectly apparent to any well-schooled ten year old you have little clue into Original Intent...instead you will defend to the death the polluted, feminized, twisted version in vogue today.0 -
Jim, I have been reading, and when I see a spade, I call it. 0 -
I truly feel sorry for you guys!![:(]
If we do lose the right to Keep and Bear Arms, which I will defend to the death, it will be because of people like you!!![:(!]
Willing to 'rant', and personaly attack others, but not act!!![:(!]
I wish you a good day, but then in your IDEAL world everyday is a good day!!![}:)]0 -
quote:Originally posted by Jim Rau
I truly feel sorry for you guys!![:(]
If we do lose the right to Keep and Bear Arms, which I will defend to the death, it will be because of people like you!!![:(!]
Willing to 'rant', and personaly attack others, but not act!!![:(!]
I wish you a good day, but then in your IDEAL world everyday is a good day!!![}:)]
Our hands are NOT dirty, from comprimise. People like you are. If there is ANYONE to blame for gun control, it is those that INSIST on "comprimise" because THAT is "reality" type.
The anti's never had a toe hold , until your types justified them.
Don't pull a muscle patting yourself on the back Jimmy.0 -
I remember my grandfather telling me about being able to walk into a hardware store,......plunk your money down, and walk out with your gun, just like a new hammer.
It really wasn't that long ago!
How come those folks weren't slaughtering each other in the streets, before all of these inane laws?
It's all crap. It is a way to know who is armed, and another "cash cow" plain and simple.[xx(]0 -
quote:Originally posted by Marc1301
I remember my grandfather telling me about being able to walk into a hardware store,......plunk your money down, and walk out with your gun, just like a new hammer.
It really wasn't that long ago!
I did that for my first hunting rifle.
Only difference was it was a surplus store.
Even bought ammo....AT THE SAME TIME,
carried it out MYSELF. [:0][:0][:0]0 -
quote:Originally posted by pickenup
quote:Originally posted by Marc1301
I remember my grandfather telling me about being able to walk into a hardware store,......plunk your money down, and walk out with your gun, just like a new hammer.
It really wasn't that long ago!
I did that for my first hunting rifle.
Only difference was it was a surplus store.
Even bought ammo....AT THE SAME TIME,
carried it our MYSELF. [:0][:0][:0]
In the late 1970's and early 1980's my brother and I would bring our shotguns to school and leave them laying on the back seat of the car while we were in class. Then after school we would go hunting right behind the school grounds ! I remember one student even brought a long gun into shop class to have something fixed by the shop teacher.
Times have changed.....for the worst !0 -
quote:Originally posted by nyforester
quote:Originally posted by pickenup
quote:Originally posted by Marc1301
I remember my grandfather telling me about being able to walk into a hardware store,......plunk your money down, and walk out with your gun, just like a new hammer.
It really wasn't that long ago!
I did that for my first hunting rifle.
Only difference was it was a surplus store.
Even bought ammo....AT THE SAME TIME,
carried it our MYSELF. [:0][:0][:0]
In the late 1970's and early 1980's my brother and I would bring our shotguns to school and leave them laying on the back seat of the car while we were in class. Then after school we would go hunting right behind the school grounds ! I remember one student even brought a long gun into shop class to have something fixed by the shop teacher.
Times have changed.....for the worst !
Now a days you'd get 20 years for that AND lose the RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS FOR EVER.[xx(]0 -
quote:Originally posted by nyforester
quote:Originally posted by pickenup
quote:Originally posted by Marc1301
I remember my grandfather telling me about being able to walk into a hardware store,......plunk your money down, and walk out with your gun, just like a new hammer.
It really wasn't that long ago!
I did that for my first hunting rifle.
Only difference was it was a surplus store.
Even bought ammo....AT THE SAME TIME,
carried it our MYSELF. [:0][:0][:0]
In the late 1970's and early 1980's my brother and I would bring our shotguns to school and leave them laying on the back seat of the car while we were in class. Then after school we would go hunting right behind the school grounds ! I remember one student even brought a long gun into shop class to have something fixed by the shop teacher.
Times have changed.....for the worst !
I did the same NYForester,......we used to go dove hunting after school.
I graduated in 1980.
Man,......what changes have taken place.0 -
1982 for me....1981 for my kid brother. 0 -
1978 here. 0 -
quote:If we do lose the right to Keep and Bear Arms, which I will defend to the death, it will be because of people like you!!!No, sir. It will be because of people who have become complacent, have traded freedom for security. It will be because of people who have, with good intentions, allowed their freedoms to be chipped away bit by bit and piece by piece, all under the guise of doing what government tells them is the right thing to do. It will be because of people who took the easy way out, refused to stand firm for what they know is the right thing to do. 0 -
quote:Jim Rau
Senior Member
USA
1359 Posts
Posted - 09/24/2008 : 11:46:32 AM
I truly feel sorry for you guys!!
Thanks, Mr.Rau; That indicates to me that down where you live, deep inside, you understand that we are right and you wrong..thus you can understnd our Angst over gun laws.
quote:If we do lose the right to Keep and Bear Arms, which I will defend to the death, it will be because of people like you!!!
Jim,Jim,Jim...How many times does it have to explained in teeny-tiny words..you no longer HAVE a "Right to Keep and Bear Arms"..you have PRIVILEGES to do so...revocable at any time they so choose. "Defend to the Death" ??????? I assume you are writting these posts from beyond the grave..???
"People Like US" is the SOLE reason you still have a gun. Oh..yea. Pardon me..the King will makes damn sure his men remain Armed...
quote:Willing to 'rant', and personaly attack others, but not act!!! AH, SUCH a trite bit of nonsense. You are unable to understand that educating others IS "Action"..THE ABSOLUTE only THING LEFT TO US. Naturally, that must needs leave out your dog and pony show you brag about..where you teach impressionable minds your regurgitated New American constitution...
quote:I wish you a good day, but then in your IDEAL world everyday is a good day!!!
I haven't hade a good day since 1968..when others like you collabororated to strike the single greatest blow for tyranny since the British marched on that fateful day long ago..and Mores the pity..we did not meet them at the bridge.
That move 40 years allows people like you, Trfox, and the entire NRA to prance around just like you know something about the Constitution.0 -
Boy are you misinformed HB!!![xx(]
People like me are the reason you and your pepclub are able to be armed.[;)]
Unlike you, I have put my life and my livlyhood on the line to stand up for the 2nd Amendment, not once, but many times. You and most here are wind bags, nothing more, nothing less. You hide behind some silly 'handle' on the internet and talk trash. This is why your insults and personal attacks don't bother me. Actuly I get a good laugh at them![;)]
The internet as spawned many like you, as this site proves.
Babble on O Great One[}:)]0
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