SELLERS if you QUIT on California you've given up.
I am disappointed at the dealers and private sellers out there who put WILL NOT SELL TO CALIFORNIA DUE TO NEW LAWS in their ads. They have truly given up.
If you were at all concerned about gun rights and your right to sell freely you would take the extra step or two to make a transfer and sell a firearm in California. Heck add an extra dollar or two if thats what it takes. The process isn't that difficult.
If you chose NOT to sell here then you have responded as intended and done EXACTLY what the politicans here wanted you to do; letting red tape effectively become bans on firearms as THEY intended.
Don't give in to these ploys because special interest will certainly take note, announce victories, and send messages to politicans here that they can get away with even more.
Sellers keep selling here and make YOUR message clear. The right to sell and own firearms.
If you were at all concerned about gun rights and your right to sell freely you would take the extra step or two to make a transfer and sell a firearm in California. Heck add an extra dollar or two if thats what it takes. The process isn't that difficult.
If you chose NOT to sell here then you have responded as intended and done EXACTLY what the politicans here wanted you to do; letting red tape effectively become bans on firearms as THEY intended.
Don't give in to these ploys because special interest will certainly take note, announce victories, and send messages to politicans here that they can get away with even more.
Sellers keep selling here and make YOUR message clear. The right to sell and own firearms.
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quote:Originally posted by lt496
Keepandbeararms is merely one source tr, a source that has gathered scarce and/or closely guarded information about the NRA's historic support for gun control and then packaged it up, so that average people can find it and be educated.
One really need only look at actual NRA actions and positions while using Amendment II as a yardstick. That pretty much says it all.
Once again I ask, do you have anything to offer that refutes any of the NRA information, or are you merely offering a different version of your old, tired misdirection and diversion/malign the messenger tactic?
Here is a link that quotes the NRA from their own magazine. That good enough for you tr?
http://forums.gunbroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=293126
You apparently want to cloud the situation and my position. I did not attempt to engage you in the never ending debate about how "evil" the NRA is. I merely tried to offer an honest comment that perhaps, just perhaps, you were being influenced by an organization that is nothing but a propaganda mill to criticize the NRA. In my case, I will always try to avoid being influenced by a strictly propaganda mill and will seek and believe other sources.
Apparently for you and the other Canary Asses, ANY anti-NRA source is a "good" source. As I expected I am sure you will continue to enjoy and distribute such propaganda so enjoy.
BTW, may I just refer to you and the others as "Asses" to save bandwidth?0 -
quote:Originally posted by tr fox
quote:Originally posted by lt496
Keepandbeararms is merely one source tr, a source that has gathered scarce and/or closely guarded information about the NRA's historic support for gun control and then packaged it up, so that average people can find it and be educated.
One really need only look at actual NRA actions and positions while using Amendment II as a yardstick. That pretty much says it all.
Once again I ask, do you have anything to offer that refutes any of the NRA information, or are you merely offering a different version of your old, tired misdirection and diversion/malign the messenger tactic?
Here is a link that quotes the NRA from their own magazine. That good enough for you tr?
http://forums.gunbroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=293126
You apparently want to cloud the situation and my position. I did not attempt to engage you in the never ending debate about how "evil" the NRA is. I merely tried to offer an honest comment that perhaps, just perhaps, you were being influenced by an organization that is nothing but a propaganda mill to criticize the NRA. In my case, I will always try to be influenced by a strictly propaganda mill and will seek and believe other sources.
Apparently for you and the other Canary Asses, ANY anti-NRA source is a "good" source. As I expected I am sure you will continue to enjoy and distribute such propaganda so enjoy.
Once again, do you offer any facts that dispute the information that has you so concerned, or is it that the information is posted on keepandbeararms.com, that has your panties in a wad.
Speaking of a "propaganda mill", propaganda is nothing more than "the systematic propagation of a doctrine or cause or of information reflecting the views and interests of those advocating such a doctrine or cause".
The only issue with "propaganda" is when it is materially false. Show me where this NRA information is false please.
Stay focused tr, it isn't about the "organization, that is hosting the website, it is about the "information" "found" there.
Also, this is not the only source of information about actual NRA actions. The NRA itself AND many of your own past postings refer to their actions which are contrary to Amendment II.
Now, show any of the reading audience exactly where and why this information is flawed, otherwise it is nothing more than misdirection and diversion on your part.0 -
quote:BTW, may I just refer to you and the others as "Asses" to save bandwidth?
Coming from you and your collectivist perspective tr, I would consider it a compliment.[;)]0 -
quote:Originally posted by lt496
quote:Originally posted by tr fox
quote:Originally posted by lt496
Keepandbeararms is merely one source tr, a source that has gathered scarce and/or closely guarded information about the NRA's historic support for gun control and then packaged it up, so that average people can find it and be educated.
One really need only look at actual NRA actions and positions while using Amendment II as a yardstick. That pretty much says it all.
Once again I ask, do you have anything to offer that refutes any of the NRA information, or are you merely offering a different version of your old, tired misdirection and diversion/malign the messenger tactic?
Here is a link that quotes the NRA from their own magazine. That good enough for you tr?
http://forums.gunbroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=293126
You apparently want to cloud the situation and my position. I did not attempt to engage you in the never ending debate about how "evil" the NRA is. I merely tried to offer an honest comment that perhaps, just perhaps, you were being influenced by an organization that is nothing but a propaganda mill to criticize the NRA. In my case, I will always try to be influenced by a strictly propaganda mill and will seek and believe other sources.
Apparently for you and the other Canary Asses, ANY anti-NRA source is a "good" source. As I expected I am sure you will continue to enjoy and distribute such propaganda so enjoy.
Once again, do you offer any facts that dispute the information that has you so concerned, or is it that the information is posted on keepandbeararms.com, that has your panties in a wad.
Speaking of a "propaganda mill", propaganda is nothing more than "the systematic propagation of a doctrine or cause or of information reflecting the views and interests of those advocating such a doctrine or cause".
The only issue with "propaganda" is when it is materially false. Show me where this NRA information is false please.
Stay focused tr, it isn't about the "organization, that is hosting the website, it is about the "information" "found" there.
Also, this is not the only source of information about actual NRA actions. The NRA itself AND many of your own past postings refer to their actions which are contrary to Amendment II.
Now, show any of the reading audience exactly where and why this information is flawed, otherwise it is nothing more than misdirection and diversion on your part.
In red above. I have no interest in spending much time or effort as you suggest in red above. Once again I stress that from my own personal experiences I have noticed that the website you mentioned exists solely for the purpose of criticizing the NRA. If someone spends significent time, money and effort to operate a website that had the only purpose of criticizing you, I would be supicious of that website, regardless of how I might feel about you. But you and the other Asses (thanks for official permission to use that term) apparently are anxious to find and believe any anti-NRA information from just any anti-NRA site
You should also wonder why, if that website is pro-gun rights, as opposed to just being anti-NRA (hell, the anti-gun crowd and the liberal media are also anti-NRA but I hope you don't let them brainwash you also) then why doesn't it encourage or offer the visitors to that site some constructive alternatives, other than the NRA, to divert their efforts in order to help the fight for gun rights?.0 -
quote:Originally posted by lt496
quote:BTW, may I just refer to you and the others as "Asses" to save bandwidth?
Coming from you and your collectivist perspective tr, I would consider it a compliment.[;)]
Well then I shall "compliment" you and yours often.0 -
quote:In red above. I have no interest in spending much time or effort as you suggest in red above. Once again I stress that from my own personal experiences I have noticed that the website you mentioned exists solely for the purpose of criticizing the NRA. If someone spends significent time, money and effort to operate a website that had the only purpose of criticizing you, I would be supicious of that website, regardless of how I might feel about you. But you and the other Asses (thanks for official permission to use that term) apparently are anxious to find and believe any anti-NRA information from just any anti-NRA site
You should also wonder why, if that website is pro-gun rights, as opposed to just being anti-NRA (hell, the anti-gun crowd and the liberal media are also anti-NRA but I hope you don't let them brainwash you also) then why doesn't it encourage or offer the visitors to that site some constructive alternatives, other than the NRA, to divert their efforts in order to help the fight for gun rights?.
"KeepAndBearArms.com is a grassroots movement of the people, by the people, and for the people. It is a call to action, a call for self-education, and a 21 gun salute to the many good men and women who fought and died to bring America into being.
This web site is about helping lawful people maintain their abilities to protect themselves and the people they love effectively from anyone who would do them harm - through legal, private ownership and use of guns. We also stand for the repealing of all gun laws which infringe on the civil rights of peaceable women and men to defend their own lives and property."
The above descriptor is what Keep and Bear Arms is about, contrary to your claim that they, as you say, "exist solely for the purpose of criticizing the NRA".
The organization has a huge variety of information and links, only a few which deal with anti-NRA information. They focus on Amendment II issues through current events articles, news, topic specific editorial and many, many other methods.
You are factually wrong and you deliberately disparage this organization to attempt to discredit the information they have compiled on 'actual' NRA actions, over the history of the NRA.
KBA is a no-compromise organization and as such, they find that groups like the NRA and other compromise and gun-control supporting orgs, are detrimental to the Republic.
Their reporting fact, simply threatens you and your cult, the NRA.
It is what it is and once again, tr, your ass is showing.0 -
quote: quote from trfox:In red above. I have no interest in spending much time or effort as you suggest in red above. Once again I stress that from my own personal experiences I have noticed that the website you mentioned exists solely for the purpose of criticizing the NRA. If someone spends significent time, money and effort to operate a website that had the only purpose of criticizing you, I would be supicious of that website, regardless of how I might feel about you. But you and the other Asses (thanks for official permission to use that term) apparently are anxious to find and believe any anti-NRA information from just any anti-NRA site
You should also wonder why, if that website is pro-gun rights, as opposed to just being anti-NRA (hell, the anti-gun crowd and the liberal media are also anti-NRA but I hope you don't let them brainwash you also) then why doesn't it encourage or offer the visitors to that site some constructive alternatives, other than the NRA, to divert their efforts in order to help the fight for gun rights?. End quote from trfox....
Post/quote from lt496: "KeepAndBearArms.com is a grassroots movement of the people, by the people, and for the people. It is a call to action, a call for self-education, and a 21 gun salute to the many good men and women who fought and died to bring America into being.
This web site is about helping lawful people maintain their abilities to protect themselves and the people they love effectively from anyone who would do them harm - through legal, private ownership and use of guns. We also stand for the repealing of all gun laws which infringe on the civil rights of peaceable women and men to defend their own lives and property."
The above descriptor is what Keep and Bear Arms is about, contrary to your claim that they, as you say, "exist solely for the purpose of criticizing the NRA".
The organization has a huge variety of information and links, only a few which deal with anti-NRA information. They focus on Amendment II issues through current events articles, news, topic specific editorial and many, many other methods.
You are factually wrong and you deliberately disparage this organization to attempt to discredit the information they have compiled on 'actual' NRA actions, over the history of the NRA.
KBA is a no-compromise organization and as such, they find that groups like the NRA and other compromise and gun-control supporting orgs, are detrimental to the Republic.
Their reporting fact, simply threatens you and your cult, the NRA.
It is what it is and once again, tr, your ass is showing.
Well tr, I'm still waiting for you to 'man-up' and 'step-up' here.
You made a clear statement about the organization, keepandbeararms.com, which is provable false.
How about surprising me and admitting that you simply made it up, in an attempt to discredit the information by discrediting the organization that posted it?
You remember, don't you tr, that old "misdirecting" and "diverting" thingy that I said you were doing?[:o)]0 -
Just dropped back in and was quite surprised at the writings since I have been gone. I am happy to see the well written responses by intelligent individuals in support of selling to California and I was amused even by the counter-arguments and their suggestions.
Ranting and raving by those who claim they will take extreme measures they never intend to carry out was never the intent here. Rantings and ravings seldom make change, cooler heads will always prevail...
The argument that my money is just as good as anyone else's is a good point. Luckily I seem to have found dealers and individuals who will work with me on the firearms I want and they will make their profit and I will get a price I like. I hope to see others follow suit, they can get our money too.0 -
quote:follow suit, they can get our money too.
Ahh, yes..money.
Forget the fact that you boys have ceased crawling to beg to buy a gun..now you inch along on your bellies like a worm.
But now you wave handfuls of hundred dollar bills...hoping that OTHERS will join you down there.
Naturally..there ALWAYS are those that will join you in whatever cesspool you exist in, in order to 'get them bucks'...
No surprise..none at all.0 -
WOW !!! Can u feel the love ??!!! it's scary to think some of you guys are gunowners......Being a gunowner in Cali really sucks, you get no arguement from me.....What sucks even more is not only not being supported by gunnies in 'Free America' but the incredible vitriol and hatred from some of you so-called patriots......Oh well, keep the posts coming !!! You can't beat the entertainment........and it'll be a cold day in hell I crawl for ANYONE !!!!.....My money does the crawlin for me...... 0 -
Lavgrunt;
You beg permission EVERY TIME YOU BUY A GUN FROM A DEALER..crawling to your Master, as it were.
You call it whatever you wish...I remember walking into a store (11,12) and walking out with a 303 British and box of cartridges. You paid your money and WALKED OUT...no begging involved.
Perhaps it makes you feel more 'manly' to deny it...but I stopped begging daddy for a gun at TEN YEARS OLD....until 1968, that is...0 -
Sorry, it's too late. California has already given up on me. 0 -
The only people that have given up on Kalifornia are the Kalifornians that voted for the garbage that is currently in power there, I believe that the others in non communist states are restricted at the moment in what we can do now short of staging an all out revolution which will more than likely happen in the near future. This is because of the way that Kalifornia and other communist states have decided to become because the majority of Kalifornians and other communist states didn't think that it was important enough at the time to elect politicians that would protect your Second Amendment rights and block other immoral beliefs from taking a foothold there and the rest of us refuse to conform to the anti-Second Amendment and immoral policies of these communist states which are run by pro-liberal, anti-gun, pro-abortion, pro-homosexual deviants and they believe that it is more important to protect these warped and twisted beliefs than anything else and that is now what you have garbage, garbage in, garbage out.
I amongst others have barraged these communist states with pro Second Amendment and anti immoral literature and beliefs and that they change their policies, which have obviously fallen on deaf ears, it might as well be Sodom and Gomorrah.
The only way to get things to change in Kalifornia and the other communist states is to start letting people know that when they vote for these liberal politicians that they are giving up on Kalifornia and the other communist states and are depriving their own citizens of their Constitutional rights and perverting the populace with debauchery. Find other Pro Second Amendment groups and research them first to make sure that they are not really on the liberal left and then join and support them with the goal of removing these garbage politicians that are just parasites feeding off the good citizenry and giving nothing in return.
Here is a list of politicians that have betrayed their citizens and made major contributions to the liberal left anti gun and immoral agenda of today:
George Bush Jr. R-TX
Bill Clinton D-AR
George Bush Sr R-TX
Carl Levin R-MI
Arlen Specter D-PA
Frank Lautenberg D-NJ
Herb Kohl D-WI
Joseph Lieberman D-CT
Dianne Feinstein D-CA
Barbara Boxer D-CA
Russ Feingold D-WI
Tom Lantos D-CA
Ron Wyden D-OR
Charles Schumer D-NY
Mike DeWine R-OH
Jack Reed D-RI
John Kerry D-MA
Hillary Clinton D-NY
Ted Kennedy D-MA
Dick Durbin D-IL
Carolyn McCarthy D-NY
Nancy Pelosi D-CA
Sheila Lee D-TX
Diana Degette D-CO
Anthony Weiner D-NY
Jim Moran D-VA
Zoe Lofgren D-CA
Henry Waxman D-CA
John Conyers D-MI0 -
I guess you would have to live in Calif to understand how and why this state is so screwed up. The liberal socialist have taken control with the unions and by district gerrymandering.
When Arnold was still pretending to be a real Republican, he tried to strongarm a change in the way the districts are drawn up. The unions almost went bankrupt trying to defeat it, and they won. In fact they shot down every initiative he had on the ballot, even the ones that were good for both parties, just to prove that they were in control.
Blanket statements like "you need to fix your own problems" and "you voted them in" just show your small minded ignorance. Do you really think that any gun owner in Calif voted for these azzholes? And yes, I do try to fix the problems, just like thousands of others here do.
The ones that won't "jump through the hoops" or won't even sell C&R firearms to Calif? Screw em, there's plenty others that will, and they are the ones making the money. They are also telling the anti gun scum here that this form of gun control won't work.
Calif people, there is a ballot initiative in Nov that will change the way the districts are drawn up. This is the first step to taking this state back. The other good news is, several of these gun grabbers will term out this year, Don Peratta among them![^]
Vote YES on Prop 11!0 -
quote:Originally posted by TRAP55
Blanket statements like "you need to fix your own problems" and "you voted them in" just show your small minded ignorance.
The ones that won't "jump through the hoops" or won't even sell C&R firearms to Calif? Screw em, there's plenty others that will, and they are the ones making the money.
And then you're all surprised you're not well regarded in other states in The Union. No, not screw us, screw YOU, arrogant self-absorbed human garbage.0 -
quote:And then you're all surprised you're not well regarded in other states in The Union. No, not screw us, screw YOU, arrogant self-absorbed human garbage.
arrogant self-absorbed human garbage?
Why? Because I couldn't care less if you sell to Calif buyers? You already told me and a thousand others to get screwed when you made the decision not to sell to anyone in this state.
Just who did you think that would spite? The gun grabbers that made the law? It's just what they hoped you would do, and you did. You're being used as a tool, but I can see you already have that title.0
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