Proof enough for me
Without going where we are not allowed to go......
I was watching a show that had a Wasp that just so happened to evolve by chance to not only use the atmosphere to fly, but could locate a larva under the bark of a pine tree and whip out its just by chance tail drilling machine, It drills a hole into the bark and doesn't use its drill to kill the larva but instead injects some just by chance paralyzing agent into the larva with a preservative it made up just by chance and then using its handy dandy drill tail it lays an egg into the larva which then feeds on the paralyzed preserved body until it emerges to continue the cycle.
I'm sold on intelligent design!
I was watching a show that had a Wasp that just so happened to evolve by chance to not only use the atmosphere to fly, but could locate a larva under the bark of a pine tree and whip out its just by chance tail drilling machine, It drills a hole into the bark and doesn't use its drill to kill the larva but instead injects some just by chance paralyzing agent into the larva with a preservative it made up just by chance and then using its handy dandy drill tail it lays an egg into the larva which then feeds on the paralyzed preserved body until it emerges to continue the cycle.
I'm sold on intelligent design!
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As it turns out there are hundreds of similar species of parasitoid wasps, that do very similar things to larvae and spiders, and they are found all over the world. Keep rolling the dice and you either crap out or hit a winning number. 0 -
I consider life, all by itself to be truly a miracle! 
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When a new generation is born several times a year, three billion years is plenty of time for random chances to accumulate. The wasps that didn't evolve this way evolved to survive some other way. Or they went extinct. The fact that we see wonderfully adapted creatures proves one thing: they can and did adapt. That's also called evolution. 0 -
Rocky Raab wrote:When a new generation is born several times a year, three billion years is plenty of time for random chances to accumulate. The wasps that didn't evolve this way evolved to survive some other way. Or they went extinct. The fact that we see wonderfully adapted creatures proves one thing: they can and did adapt. That's also called evolution.
It sounds reasonable until you think any kind of mutation is going to be worse, the same or better which lessens the chance of improvement. AND any mutation is much more likely to kill an organism than improve an organism. One tiny chemical imbalance, any change in cell structure and it is likely fatal. Sure animals evolve but it is much more likely they evolve from varieties of already proven scenarios stored in the genetic code.
Random is highly unlikely, a good analogy I heard was randomly swapping parts in a 747 and the chances of improvement? The chances are that it won't function, it will crash and burn. And by chance, a random parts change or modification was an improvement, what are the chances of a repeat, it happening again? The lottery is only seven numbers, 8,324,608 possible combinations of 23 chromosome pairs.0 -
No, that's a bad analogy. Mutation doesn't change a beak to a foot. It makes the beak longer or shorter, weaker or stronger. The changes that work better get passed along to the next generation, and the ones that don't die out. Improvement is the rule, not degeneration. The key is that ONLY those changes that improve survival get passed along. Accumulated improvement is evolution. 0 -
I read somewhere that the odds of life as we know it occurring without any intelligent design are the same as a tornado blowing through a junk yard and assembling a 747!
I don't care what anyone believes but even the Pro nothing scientists agree the odds of their assumptions are zero lol0 -
Rocky Raab wrote:No, that's a bad analogy. Mutation doesn't change a beak to a foot. It makes the beak longer or shorter, weaker or stronger. The changes that work better get passed along to the next generation, and the ones that don't die out. Improvement is the rule, not degeneration. The key is that ONLY those changes that improve survival get passed along. Accumulated improvement is evolution.
I still can't see how the math can work, a random mutation that makes a beak long or more able to crack a nut may be a survival plus, but just how many times can the single mutation be passed on and become fixed in the genes? An animal that has litters may have an edge in passing on positive mutations. Those that have fewer offspring and the possibility of passing on a positive mutation diminishes.
And to further discuss gene fixing, many animals when randomly breeding tend to revert back to the basic model. Domesticated pigs, for example, are line bred. Line bred means they are bred to relatives for specific traits. Let the Hogs loose to randomly breed and in fewer generations than you'd think they revert back to the basic model. very close to European wild Boar. It is said random breeding in dogs and the end product is very near a Wolf or Jackle.
There is less genetic variance in the human race than an average troop of Chimpanzees.
IMO our genetics is like a Swiss Army knife, a different blade or tool to fit the circumstances. A variety of tried and proven survival options stored in our recessive genome. My way of thinking greatly increases the possibility a mutation (variation) will be beneficial and not deadly.
Your statement about only beneficial traits getting passed along doesn't ring true, at least in all cases. IMO the math of random incremental changes accounting for the finished product just doesn't add up. Like I said a store of proven genetic options stored in the genome makes much more sense, which accounts for variety and has already proven successful in the past.0 -
It's that little IMO that cripples your arguments. You believe what you believe because you want to believe it. The simple fact is that evolution is real. It is observable and provable. It occurs naturally and constantly in all species. Traits that enhance survival of the species are passed along genetically. Those that don't aren't. End of discussion on my part.
Have a good day.0
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