Heck of a shoot out in Jersey city
It looks like 2 people with SA rifles shot a Policeman and a bunch of other people most of them Jewish.
No Names or pics of the perps have been released and the story is kind of lacking.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/10/nyregion/jersey-city-shooter.html
C&P
Six people, including one police officer, were killed in Jersey City, N.J., on Tuesday in a series of gunfights that brought destruction to a kosher market and made a residential area feel like a war zone.
The dead included three people in the market as well as two suspected shooters, officials said. The slain police officer, Detective Joseph Seals, 40, was a longtime veteran with the Jersey City Police Department, according to Chief Mike Kelly.
Officials believe the shooting began when the detective approached one of the gunmen at a nearby cemetery in connection with a homicide investigation and was shot dead, according to a person with knowledge of the matter.
The gunmen then fled in a truck and eventually ended up at the kosher market, where they opened fire on police officers and civilians, officials said. For much of the next hour, residents nearby ? and blocks away ? could hear rapid bursts of gunfire echoing off the low buildings.
No Names or pics of the perps have been released and the story is kind of lacking.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/10/nyregion/jersey-city-shooter.html
C&P
Six people, including one police officer, were killed in Jersey City, N.J., on Tuesday in a series of gunfights that brought destruction to a kosher market and made a residential area feel like a war zone.
The dead included three people in the market as well as two suspected shooters, officials said. The slain police officer, Detective Joseph Seals, 40, was a longtime veteran with the Jersey City Police Department, according to Chief Mike Kelly.
Officials believe the shooting began when the detective approached one of the gunmen at a nearby cemetery in connection with a homicide investigation and was shot dead, according to a person with knowledge of the matter.
The gunmen then fled in a truck and eventually ended up at the kosher market, where they opened fire on police officers and civilians, officials said. For much of the next hour, residents nearby ? and blocks away ? could hear rapid bursts of gunfire echoing off the low buildings.
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It was an on going sh*t show for sure Sam. I just watched some video. The claims are now that the location was targeted by the shooters. Three civilians inside were shot by the now deceased suspects. The teams used a Bearcat armored vehicle to ram thru the front of the building where they ultimately resolved the situation. Three different crime scenes: Cemetery where the officer was shot, Storefront where the shootout took place, Van they were operating that possibly contains/contained an incendiary device. Online posts by the deceased allegedly referenced anti-Semitic statements. 0 -
Anyone suppose the shooters are muslimes targeting a jewish shop? 0 -
The teams used a Bearcat armored vehicle to ram thru the front of the building
I saw that.
I also saw their SWAT guys all jocked up with AR's and Armor. It looked like Baghdad.
I am waiting to see what and who the shooter were, I am sure if they were wearing MAGA hats we would know by now.0 -
An election is on the horizon. The firearm abolitionists need more of these 'mass shootings' and death of innocent bystanders' to push for more restrictive firearm laws with the eventual confiscation of firearms from all private citizens. 0 -
Now the news is reporting the shooters were, now get this, Black Hebrew Israelite 
Why would he attack Jews???
I don't get it but I am not even going to wrap my head around these wack jobs.
Ok I had to look them up and this is what I found out: Black Hebrew Israelites are groups of Black Americans who believe that they are the descendants of the ancient Israelites. To varying degrees, Black Hebrews adhere to the religious beliefs and practices of both Christianity and Judaism
You cannot make this stuff up.0 -
Sam, as you know better than most anyone here, a shoot 'em up, urban or otherwise, is always a mess, unlike what happens between commercials on TV. Our work was almost 100% in crowded urban environments, and there was a bunch of it. The challenges can be endless. From a number of the video shots I watched, there was, early on at least, just about zero command and control of the situation. Radio/firearms discipline was all jacked up. Responding units were coming from all directions, well meaning, folks wanting to help, but a recipe for disaster none the less. Once things got organized and they realized the situation was going from bad to worse apparently someone in the CP grew a pair and authorized the Bearcat action. Gotta admit, it was a 'Hail Mary' call but eventually something had to be done. 0 -
Police did what they had too. Since the police didn't know if there were people other than the bad guys alive in the building. Sending shooters in by the vehicle allows some chance to keep any Innocents alive versus tossing in grenades. But it put the officers more at risk, tough calls by tough people. 0 -
One thing about Urban combat is not only is it 3 dimensional but its easy to get into a hairball fast with out good command and control.
They probably thought there was a hostage situation going on too.
Like the UPS deal in CA that went sideways fire discipline is crucial.
Both situations kind of looked like everyone wanted to get in on the action and do some shooting0 -
Yeah Sam, as we've both experienced, it's all fun and games now isn't it?
I always got a kick out of the looks on the faces of the housecat/CP bosses when we gave 'em the facts of life in hostage rescue.
1) "Yep ____(insert command rank here) we'll go in and handle this damn goat rope you folks let get out of hand."
2) "___(insert command rank here) I'm gonna tell you right up front there's a very high probability that when we make this entry someone is likely gonna die/be seriously injured. (Command :shock: )
3) "Yes ___(insert command rank here) this ain't TV. We know our business and will take care of this. If all goes right-but that doesn't always happen- we'll bring Lassie/Little Timmy out unharmed but there are no guarantees. Once we jump off, understand we can't have you trying to interfere if things go sideways. We'll do everything possible to resolve this peacefully, but if old Murphy and his law come to visit we're gonna do what needs done." (Command: :shock:)
4) " ____(insert command rank here) if there's nothing else we've got work to do"
5) "Uh ____(insert command rank here), one last thing, ya might want to take a minute to straighten your tie and wipe that donut sugar off your uniform before you jump in front of the TV cameras." ( :oops: )
(Baghdad in the USA pretty much sums it up. Get deep into most large urban areas and it's hard to argue otherwise.)0 -
Chris the difference was all the urban shootouts(MOUT) I have been I was not really too worried about bystanders. I figured they were in on it or at least sympathetic to the bad guys cause so I really didn't give a sh*t about them. I was only worried about me and my guys. Now I am not saying we sprayed and prayed, quite the opposite but we had a lot of leeway.
Police have it a lot harder they have to worry about themselves each other and innocent bystander and account for every bullet they fire.0 -
It's good to be done with that part of my career Sam, I wouldn't trade a second of all those years, even the rough times. These days though, I doubt most of us would even make it past roll call without getting jammed up dealing with some snowflake. 0 -
Former NYPD Commish Bernard Kerik's son was supposedly one of the officers in the final shoot out that ended the bad guys. There were four civilians in the market that were shot, one survived, so i guess the officers can pat themselves on the back for managing to save one innocent. Murphy rears his ugly head and unified command is a tough thing to establish, especially with type A folks. 0 -
There?s plenty that will never leave us Jim. We do our best to compartmentalize them as we can, but they definitely revisit us unexpectedly. I agree completely that some of these visits can be tough ones. Good or bad, the things we?ve had to see and do are part of us forever. You and a few others here know what that means. I?m thankful that most do not. 0 -
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Jersey City shooters were lovers who lived in a van
By Craig McCarthy, Alex Taylor and Gabrielle FonrougeDecember 11, 2019 | 7:48pm | Updated
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The hate mongers behind the deadly Jersey City shooting that left three civilians and a police officer dead were a pair of religiously fanatical lovers who lived together inside a van, according to records and neighbors.
The killer couple, David N. Anderson, 47, and Francine Graham, 50, ? who died in a gun battle with cops ? met about two years ago when Graham was living a quiet life as a home health aide in an Elizabeth, N.J., apartment complex, The Post has learned.
?She was desperate for a boyfriend,? said neighbor Kenneth Safford, 69.
?She smoked cigarettes out here. We would talk. She always said she had a problem . . . She couldn?t get a man,? he said, adding that she sometimes speculated as to why she couldn?t find love.
?She claimed she had built in body odor,? he said. ?She wanted a boyfriend so bad.?
A second neighbor ? a 45-year-old woman who did not want their name given ? said that after meeting Anderson, Graham changed.
?Since he got into her life she didn?t have a desire to work. She used to exercise with me, we used to walk around the block. Then all of the sudden she seemed to disappear. I stopped seeing her around. She stopped taking my calls,? she said.
Graham also told the woman she was part of a religion pertaining to ?black jews? ? likely the Black Hebrew Israelite movement, of which Anderson has been identified as a one-time follower by law enforcement sources.
The group believes they are the true descendants of the ancient Israelites, are known to vilify white and Jewish people and are considered a black supremacist group by The Southern Poverty Law Center.
Anderson and Graham were heard chanting and reading the New Testament from their home, another neighbor told The Post.
?She used to do chanting and stuff like that. It was loud enough to know it was that. She would just be standing right there,? the neighbor said. ?Standing and smoking. You would just hear them just chanting religious stuff.?
Jersey City shooting: Video shows moment suspects open fire on kosher market
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About a year after the two met, Graham ? who grew up in the Manhattanville Houses in West Harlem ? lost her home through foreclosure and moved into a van with Anderson, the neighbor said.
?They would come back to the apartment once in a while and stay until the sheriff put the lock on the door,? the neighbor went on.
Another local, who only gave her name as Alexis, said Graham ?was a little off? and ?yelled at the kids? in the neighborhood for playing in the street.
Before Anderson met Graham, he was in the Army Reserves, serving as a fuel and electrical system repairer as a specialist from Sept. 1999 to Sept. 2003, according to an Army spokesman.
But shortly before he got out of the reserves, he was arrested for having an illegal weapon and went on to spend the next eight years in and out of jail in New Jersey and Ohio, records show.0
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