Milk Jug test
Ok. So today I decided to test a few bullets for expansion using milk jugs filled with water.
First bullet was a .257 dia, 117 grain btsp. Its grouping at 1/4-3/8" @ 100, so its shooting wonderful. The bad news is, at least in my opinion, it failed miserably when shooting into milk jugs. It penetrated to the 4th jug, but lost 55% of its 117 grains. Don't think I'll be hunting with that bullet. Some people like bullets that come apart, however, I'm not one of them.
Next bullet was a speer, 120 grain hot cor. Same .257 dia, coming out of my 25-06. Best accuracy I've found with it yields about 1 1/4" @ 100. It too lost alot of weight. About 51% of 120 grains. I was really surprised at that. Guess I won't be hunting with it either.
I changed diameter, and tested a 200 grain, woodleigh bullet coming out of my marlin 338MX at about 2400 fps. Grouping at about 1 1/2" @ 100. Good enough for this rifle. It penetrated to the 5th jug and retained 197 grains out of 200, and was a perfect mushroom. Just too bad they don't make a bullet in 25 caliber.
After I finished, I ordered a box of 100 grain swift sciroccos for my 25-06. I shoot them in my 264 win mag, my 300 rcm, and my 338 rcm. They shoot like lasers with target-like accuracy, and testing I've done shows they retain at least 80% of original weight.
I called the Hornady tech guy and told what I found with their bullet, and he said my test was too unreliable, that water was too inconsistent of a medium to be shooting into. Really? I'm not believing that, but hey, perhaps he's right.
First bullet was a .257 dia, 117 grain btsp. Its grouping at 1/4-3/8" @ 100, so its shooting wonderful. The bad news is, at least in my opinion, it failed miserably when shooting into milk jugs. It penetrated to the 4th jug, but lost 55% of its 117 grains. Don't think I'll be hunting with that bullet. Some people like bullets that come apart, however, I'm not one of them.
Next bullet was a speer, 120 grain hot cor. Same .257 dia, coming out of my 25-06. Best accuracy I've found with it yields about 1 1/4" @ 100. It too lost alot of weight. About 51% of 120 grains. I was really surprised at that. Guess I won't be hunting with it either.
I changed diameter, and tested a 200 grain, woodleigh bullet coming out of my marlin 338MX at about 2400 fps. Grouping at about 1 1/2" @ 100. Good enough for this rifle. It penetrated to the 5th jug and retained 197 grains out of 200, and was a perfect mushroom. Just too bad they don't make a bullet in 25 caliber.
After I finished, I ordered a box of 100 grain swift sciroccos for my 25-06. I shoot them in my 264 win mag, my 300 rcm, and my 338 rcm. They shoot like lasers with target-like accuracy, and testing I've done shows they retain at least 80% of original weight.
I called the Hornady tech guy and told what I found with their bullet, and he said my test was too unreliable, that water was too inconsistent of a medium to be shooting into. Really? I'm not believing that, but hey, perhaps he's right.
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Okie743, I'm going to skim bed the shims in tomorrow. Next 2 days, we're suppose to have winds 25-40 mph, so can't prove anything by shooting in that, so I just as well have the skin bed drying. As to bedding in front of the recoil lug, yes, I bed the first 3 inches in front and the barrel is floated the rest of the way out with no pressure point. Yesterday you asked about my velocity with the 117 gr hornady's. Using 54.0 grains of H4831SC, I'm getting an average of 2930 fps with ES of 4.something, and SD of 2.something.
Guess I was incorrect in using the action screws. I have several of the big spring clamps. I'll use them tomorrow when I skim bed.
Thus has been a heckuva good learning experience, I'll say that. Between you and nononsense, lordy, you taught me alot. Thanks a bunch. I'm bettin' this rifle is gonna shoot a little different, and hopefully better. We'll see in a few days.
BTW, I did check the screws. They were fine.0 -
Just some info about inletting screws and spring clamps.
Get yourself a set of these stock inletting screws or you can make them if desired. Or just get a joint of steel dowel rod and thread your own in your spare time.
They are long and allow alignment as you are setting the action into the bedding more user friendly . I lightly plug the stock tang and recoil lug screw holes with clay and the long headless stock inletting screws push out the clay as the action is set into place.
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1006448136
My spring clamps are 3 inch jaw opening and handles have a length of about 10 inches. I find the clamps more user friendly than surgical tubing
Tape the vinyl covering on the jaws good because it can slip off and scar the metal or stock. I've never tried the 4 inch opening ones they might be ok and more user friendly. You have to be stout to open and hold the jaws open on these with one hand when applying them. I try to get one directly about the recoil lug area and the other at the rear of the action about where the bolt enters the action and place them 180 degrees from each other and I use the floorplate and/or trigger guard on bottom of stock so as to keep the stock inletting screws aligned (not tilted) and this also keeps the action from being slightly cocked or tilted in the stock. Seems strange but I've found that using the regular stock screws will most generally result in the action not getting bedded dead flat in the glass. (and the inletting screws keeps everything aligned as the action is going into the wet glass)
https://www.amazon.com/Bessey-XM7-3-Inch-Metal-Spring/dp/B0006694NC/ref=sr_1_11?hvadid=78546413370433&hvbmt=be&hvdev=c&hvqmt=e&keywords=3+inch+spring+clamps&qid=1570802399&sr=8-11
Yes, you need to skim bed before real world testing because the action is not setting on the bedding firm at the barrrel/recoil lug area.0 -
Do you ever have a problem with your mixed epoxy being too thick when first mixed or one of the parts being too thick before mixing equal parts?
(not the desired consistency for a good desired flow for when the action is being inserted into the stock)If it's too thick the eposxy will actually upset (break through) the release agent and then stick to the metal, etc)
Reason I ask is sometimes old bedding epoxy is too thick, both parts too thick or just one part or even when you open a new batch you can tell it's going to be too thick or grainy when mixed for proper desired flow)
I have a recipe for easily making it the proper consistency if it's too thick or grainy is why I ask you.0 -
Yeah, sometimes, but I tried something this morning when I was skim bedding that 25-06. I put my 2 piles of pro bed on a plastic lid, so when I'm done with it, i just throw it all away. Anyway, it was pretty stiff, so i used a hair dryer to warm it up some. Don't know why i didn't do that before. It mixed up beautifully. Bedded in my shims on top of the pillar, put the action back together, and have it where its warm drying. I'm going to check it in the morning, and if it suits me, then I'll let it finish curing for a couple more days or until the wind slows down enough for me to see if it shoots differently. 0 -
Recipe I use for getting glass bedding to the proper consistency.
I've opened up new bought epoxy that is not proper consistency for a good flow when mixed. I prefer about consistency of margarine. (not runny but easily flowable under slight pressure and won't quite drip) Epoxy that is little to hard when applied will upset or break through the release agent and bond to the metal and you will end up with a action glued to the stock sometimes and this is a real PITA.
:oops:
To get epoxy to the consistency that I prefer I heat some water (get it very hot) then put the hot water in a shallow pan or bowl then set the unmixed epoxy containers into the hot water for few minutes and then after few minutes start stirring until it's seems right consistency. You have the option of softening the whole batch or just the amount you want to use. Just watch and do not get water into the epoxy.
Keep changing the hot water until the batch starts warming.
I do not mix the epoxy parts together before using hot water because when the epoxy is warmed it will set up faster. Mix it after you get each part to the proper consistency.
I use sharpened wooden popsicle sticks to trim the outside exposed squeezed out epoxy after it's cured somewhat, but before the epoxy gets rock hard. (when it's about like butter it will trim but not stick to the trimmers) The wooden trimmer sticks do not scratch the metal or stock but are sharp enough to cut the epoxy.
Before applying a skim coat to cured epoxy I use a Dremel tool and drill small holes at angles and I also have a dovetail Dremel bit (bottom of the bit is wider than the top) and cut few grooves so as to get a good lock in and bonding of the thin coat of bedding to the cured coat. Use a toothpick to get the new epoxy into the small drilled holes.
Skim coating is sometimes a slight PITA. (trying to get the action dead on the caliper for a second time)0
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