Walther PPK/s .22 automatic
I have had a love-hate relationship with the PP/PPK for many years; I love the way that it looks, but most of its handling characteristics leave a lot to be desired. In any case, I've been wanting a PPK in .22LR for quite a while and the new issue PPK/s is reasonably priced. Before someone posts a bunch of YouTube videos on this exact gun, let me say that I have taken for granted than most of you have already seen those videos and there is no way that I can compete with their production values, nor will I try. I also don't get these guns on "loan" from the manufacturers, and I'm not getting free or subsidized ammunition. In addition, I won't give a plea for donations to a Patreon funding account like many of the shameless You Tubers do. I'm spending my own money and my opinions are my own.
Although this is a nice pistol, don't imagine that it is the match for the high quality German/French Walthers from the Interarms days. There are a lot of production shortcuts taken, including the use of a very thin barrel which is sleeved so as to appear full sized. More than a few parts were redesigned or simplified so that interchanging of parts between old and new pistols would be hit and miss at best. The upside is that the street price on the pistol is under $300, which makes it an affordable plinker...with 007 style!
The overall fit an finish is good, though not of the quality you'd expect from an Interarms-era Walther.
You can see that it has a decent weight so that it has the heft of the centerfire pistol:
Here you can see the PPK/s compared with the modern P22. Walther expected the P22 to be a huge hit, but due to its looks and polymer construction, opinions are divided:
Both pistols are touted as being suppressor ready, but to run US 1/2-28 threads you need an adaptor which is NOT included with either pistol. Fortunately the same adaptor fits both pistols which simplifies things:
All things considered, I like the PPK/s .22. It has the same feel (and all of the expected quirks) of the older guns, but the price won't break your piggy bank. True, the polymer P22 is the future of handguns, but there is something to be said for the looks of the traditional pistols. The shooting range isn't open until Thursday, so I hope to take it out and send a few rounds downrange. In the meantime I have an urge for a vodka martini...shaken, not stirred.
Although this is a nice pistol, don't imagine that it is the match for the high quality German/French Walthers from the Interarms days. There are a lot of production shortcuts taken, including the use of a very thin barrel which is sleeved so as to appear full sized. More than a few parts were redesigned or simplified so that interchanging of parts between old and new pistols would be hit and miss at best. The upside is that the street price on the pistol is under $300, which makes it an affordable plinker...with 007 style!
The overall fit an finish is good, though not of the quality you'd expect from an Interarms-era Walther.
You can see that it has a decent weight so that it has the heft of the centerfire pistol:
Here you can see the PPK/s compared with the modern P22. Walther expected the P22 to be a huge hit, but due to its looks and polymer construction, opinions are divided:
Both pistols are touted as being suppressor ready, but to run US 1/2-28 threads you need an adaptor which is NOT included with either pistol. Fortunately the same adaptor fits both pistols which simplifies things:
All things considered, I like the PPK/s .22. It has the same feel (and all of the expected quirks) of the older guns, but the price won't break your piggy bank. True, the polymer P22 is the future of handguns, but there is something to be said for the looks of the traditional pistols. The shooting range isn't open until Thursday, so I hope to take it out and send a few rounds downrange. In the meantime I have an urge for a vodka martini...shaken, not stirred.
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Mark is it a SA/DA gun?
The trigger looks like its set up for SA only...............
If its not then it is a very short DA trigger pull.
I have a MAB from the 60's in 22lr that is a copy of the PPK/s Its a good gun but I would not stake my life on it. I have a beretta Cheetah in 22lr and its about 98% reliable and a very nice shooter.0 -
SA/DA, but the DA pull is very heavy. I haven't had a chance to fire it so I can't really comment on the trigger, but it appears no better or worse than a typical PP/PPK, which were never known for having good triggers. 0 -
No they weren't
I like the HK M4 the trigger is much better.
What was the Walther 22lr that they made in the 90's..............all SS and small DA/SA?0 -
To follow on Mark's astute observations - one is left feeling that the gun pictured simply should be of better quality and made of better materials - that the fit and finish and appearance and constituent elements somehow fall short of the designers intent or fail to live up to the lore and myths attached to the design - as if it somehow lacks a certain gravitas...
It's a tribute to the design and patents and architecture inherently attached to the platform that even when constructed of lesser materials and held to looser tolerances arrived at due to cost saving measures and manufacturing shortcuts the sometimes poorly executed clones still provide good function and performance even under adverse conditions...
My grandfather had a penchant for Rolls Royce saloons bit was quick to point out that one of his exclusive penultimate vehicles consisted of 76% off the shelf GM parts some of which were 20-30 years old design wise...
The car was a tank and brand mystique nonwidthstanding had some amazing performance attributes and was mostly problem free - but could have and should have been executed better.
The pre 1946 PPK's are simply better from every possible angle and aspect - in many cases better than needed or required...
A pre war Springfield is a hand made hand finished bespoke rifle made by artisans and master gunsmiths - when production numbers were low and the hours of hand tuning and hand selecting and matching of parts defied description...
Compared to War time exingancy production examples with 2 groove rifles barrels and the deletion of many features - the phosphate green pebbled finish on the metal and the most basic stock patterns - these guns worked and worked well but simply were not the same gun as the early Swiss watch match grade cherished examples...
Mike0 -
Strange, but I have an P 22 that shoots high power 22 ammo without a hitch and it is deadly accurate. Had the PPK in my hand but after having the old Interarms 22, I couldn't "pull the trigger." 0 -
I remember now it was the Walther TPH is 22lr and 25acp.
They were very compact guns and guys were putting cans on them in the 90's.
Cool guns.0 -
Grasshopper wrote:Strange, but I have an P 22 that shoots high power 22 ammo without a hitch and it is deadly accurate. Had the PPK in my hand but after having the old Interarms 22, I couldn't "pull the trigger."
My own P22 ran great right out of the box, although it occasionally fails to eject when suppressed and firing standard velocity ammo. It needs a lighter recoil spring, but unlike the 9mm Walther PPQ M2, which has a dedicated spring for using a suppressor, the P22 does not have a second spring.
Without having fired the PPK/s I already sense that it is going to need about 100 rounds of HV before it "wears in". I won't even attempt to fire it with a suppressor until that time. Most of the PP/PPK hype if based on movie lore as well as detective novels. Back when it was designed it was cutting edge, but for a carry gun, time has passed it by. Even so, the design is timeless and the pistol will no doubt remain in production well beyond its 100th birthday in 2029.0 -
Ian Fleming and commander Bond deserved royalty checks and made for a terrific marketing campaign...
Mike0 -
i have an iver johnson tp 22 that is a very close walther copy. bought it for my wife about 30years ago. she killed many a critter with it that came into her yard and chicken pen. it is now having some failure to fire issues that im sure can be resolved with a new hammer spring. i have always liked this little pistol that i can slip into my back pocket while working around the place, dont notice it much but know its there. hope you enjoy yours. 0 -
Christian....Mark Christian 8-)
I bought an IJ TP22 35 years ago, it likes the hot ammo, and is extremely accurate, especially for what it is. My Dad liked it so much after shooting it, he just said thanks, and kept it. Got it back about 4yrs ago when he went into assisted living, he was pizzed they wouldn't let him have it there. 2 months ago I took it out for the first time in years and put a box of Aguila Super Extra through it without a hiccup. Surprised myself I could still bounce a beer can around with it.0 -
I have a very old Walther PP in .22 LR that I carry when fishing, mowing, etc. A little pricey for a knock-around gun, but I like it. It's 100% reliable with cheap .22 ammo and reasonably accurate. It's not threaded for a can though. 0 -
Myself and a shooting buddy of mine both bought one last month. They were the new SS finish and made in Ft Smith AR. Yes the DA trigger pull sucks, but the smooth light SA trigger pull made up for the difference.
We fired over 1000 rounds total with a variety of different ammo and never experienced any failures The sights were dead on. Disassembly was simple and the light thin spring was notable. Much weaker than the PPK or PP.
My gripe is this: The pistol comes with only one mag. This is total BS IMHO.
OK, perhaps my complaint is undeserved, but I expect much more from a quality manufacturer such as Walther.
Over the years I have purchased a number of Walthers to include purchases of new pistols in Germany. Ever one came with a spare mag.0 -
If the one you bought, is marked "Fort Smith AR"? The frame is supposed to be a Zamak, (pot metal) casting. Nothing wrong with that, as long as the engineers who designed it. Made sure that the Zamak, wasn't exposed to abrasion or impact.
Recent "American Rifleman", has a article on how they are making .380 PPK's in Fort Smith. If they are making them with steel frames. They should make the .22's, with steel frames also. As you noted though, the price point on the .22's is so low. They couldn't afford to make the frames out of steel, like the .380's.0 -
I made the mistake of buying one of the S&W produced Walther .22s in a mini 1911 format. First shot, one of the rear sight spots popped out. The second shot, the other was gone. Hunka zinc junk! Hope your experience is better Mark. Apart from that one, all of my Walther's are WWII era. 0 -
I suppose we should all remember the high point rule...
They are ugly and unbalanced and heavy and clunky and unergonomic and made from second tier materials and were possible plastics and pot metal...
They are the ghetto personified red headed stepchild king of the Raven and Jennings and Davis and RG pile of excrement...
Nobody loves them - they make awful EDC pieces - and will get you laughed out of combat u it's and indoor ranges alike - they make a colt 45 malt liquor commemorate wrap limited collectors edition - the kydex holster costs more than the gun...
But whom is laughing at whom and who is laughing last???
They never fail to feed or cycle they never stovepipe they never misfire they never hiccup they eat any and all ammo fed to them including cast lead hand loads that cause Glocks difficulty...
They work when dirty and without proper maintenance - under adverse environmental conditions - even deliberate attempts to sabotage the guns functionality fail...
And for lords sake they are now making 10mm carbines and pistols.
Some attempts have been made to dress up and the carbines by dropping them in more modern ergonomic multi function and multi adjustable tactical key MOD AR clone platform stocks but nobody has figured out any way to improve the appearance or handling characteristics of the pistol - you can't hide that much ugly...
Possibly the easiest gun to hate ever designed yet it garners a modicum of respect from all corners - it's the living embodiment of a joke carried to far...
We had a brace of them in the gunshop days that were used as handload - reload - remanufactured ammo function test mules and we abused them severely but never achieved points of failure...
I gave both of my Walther PPK platform pistols to the girls - my remaining Walther pistols are not on the PPK branch of the family tree (one is marked Luger and one is marked Mauser)
The other key to Walther PPK popularity is the endless variations and model derivations and patent platform architecture design deviations that provide nearly endless collectors interest...
I have always been puzzled at the lack of some aftermarket fix or drop in replacement or custom option to rectify the trigger issue - but it's not a target gun even though we often use it in that manner
And yes its diminutive size and light weight and low profile and snag free architecture and ease of concealability combined with simplicity of design and the addition of a screw on / screw off can make it almost a purpose built spy versus spy assassination tool.
Than you consider the Nazi affiliation.
Personally I dislike the S&W chapter of the PPK novel.
Mike0 -
Personally I dislike the S&W chapter of the PPK novel.
You certainly get no blow back from me on that one. I bought a lesson, not a pistol.0 -
mrmike08075 wrote:I suppose we should all remember the high point rule...
They are ugly and unbalanced and heavy and clunky and unergonomic and made from second tier materials and were possible plastics and pot metal...
They are the ghetto personified red headed stepchild king of the Raven and Jennings and Davis and RG pile of excrement...
Nobody loves them - they make awful EDC pieces - and will get you laughed out of combat u it's and indoor ranges alike - they make a colt 45 malt liquor commemorate wrap limited collectors edition - the kydex holster costs more than the gun...
But whom is laughing at whom and who is laughing last???
They never fail to feed or cycle they never stovepipe they never misfire they never hiccup they eat any and all ammo fed to them including cast lead hand loads that cause Glocks difficulty...
They work when dirty and without proper maintenance - under adverse environmental conditions - even deliberate attempts to sabotage the guns functionality fail...
And for lords sake they are now making 10mm carbines and pistols.
Some attempts have been made to dress up and the carbines by dropping them in more modern ergonomic multi function and multi adjustable tactical key MOD AR clone platform stocks but nobody has figured out any way to improve the appearance or handling characteristics of the pistol - you can't hide that much ugly...
Possibly the easiest gun to hate ever designed yet it garners a modicum of respect from all corners - it's the living embodiment of a joke carried to far...
We had a brace of them in the gunshop days that were used as handload - reload - remanufactured ammo function test mules and we abused them severely but never achieved points of failure...
I gave both of my Walther PPK platform pistols to the girls - my remaining Walther pistols are not on the PPK branch of the family tree (one is marked Luger and one is marked Mauser)
The other key to Walther PPK popularity is the endless variations and model derivations and patent platform architecture design deviations that provide nearly endless collectors interest...
I have always been puzzled at the lack of some aftermarket fix or drop in replacement or custom option to rectify the trigger issue - but it's not a target gun even though we often use it in that manner
And yes its diminutive size and light weight and low profile and snag free architecture and ease of concealability combined with simplicity of design and the addition of a screw on / screw off can make it almost a purpose built spy versus spy assassination tool.
Than you consider the Nazi affiliation.
Personally I dislike the S&W chapter of the PPK novel.
Mike
Agree on the HiPoint.
These things are amazing. I see them at the ranges often and they never fail. Some of the U-tube videos out there showing the abuse they can take is amazing. I tell folks on tight budget to buy HiPoints and avoid Taurus. High points cost less and they work.0 -
Pretty sure the PPK that 007 used, was a .32.
No?0 -
the old aguila sup max hi vel 30 gr at 1750fps makes some 22 semi autos zip rite along......do not know if the newer style out now is the same speed....glad i bought 12K many years ago...figure it will outlast my shooting now...the HP really splats an armadillo 0 -
spasmcreek wrote:the old aguila sup max hi vel 30 gr at 1750fps makes some 22 semi autos zip rite along......do not know if the newer style out now is the same speed....glad i bought 12K many years ago...figure it will outlast my shooting now...the HP really splats an armadillo
The new Aguila, Super Maximum H-P's, aren't as hot as the ones you got. The old ones were so hot, they would expand on a paper target, and that was from a handgun.. It was a hoot! Made the targets, look like you were shooting .38 Special wadcutters. Weren't particularity accurate in my guns though. Maybe from a rifle?
Doubtful that I could hit a armadillo, shooting from a handgun. Using the Super Maximum's, unless I got close up and personal.0 -
I think it was a mistake for Walther to ever cease production of the PPK family of semiautomatic pistols - at least is limited numbers or vintage variations and models...
Their quest to be considered only a top tier modern first class military arms manufacture and to compete with the latest competition introductions by launching new cutting edge designs at a ridiculous rate of turn over of design and dispersment of production pieces to supply military or LEO contracts and retail distributors has resulted perhaps in neglect of their heritage...
Divesting themselves of the patent design architecture and brand associated nomenclature and recognized logo through licensing agreements to the extent that was realized - to some of the companies who ponied up the money has regrettably tarnished the brand identity and lore and mythos that were hard earned over decades of fierce competition and developmental change during world wide military conflict...
Also culture shifts have occurred - were did all the older gents at your gun club or indoor range who lovingly maintained and new every single facet on top tier well made match grade .22 short semiautomatic pistols go - high standards and flight kings and bernadelli Italian gems in astonishing configurations and variations with after market support and interchangeable parts...
How many of you still own and shoot semiautomatic pistols chambered in .22 short or .32 long or .38 special that require custom ammo or wadcutters only or were only offered internationally in non military non LEO / gendarme calibers and configurations...
I remember when .22 short straight pull bolt action biathlon and free rifle target guns were all the rage - single shot semiautomatic rifles or limited to 2-5 rounds integral fixed internal magazines...
The Russian and Soviet bloc TOZ Olympic grade free pistols with a cornucopia of questionable accessories of hard to imagine varieties with arcane purposes and mystical value added functions or enhancement of esoteric and eclectic change in the rules modifier and concept bolt on oddities often of bespoke manufacture by deranged steam punk Wizards or magic using gunsmith and machinists...
I think Walther has left a lot on the table financially and metaphorically by neglecting this avenue - even if only to be pursued in a limited custom shop fashion with low production numbers...
And shockingly - with blasphemous intent even mix up the old standard with some new innovations just to prove they can do it - just to generate magazine articles and journal reviews or gun show new product launch cult interest and Zeitgeist...
The German pistol manufactures especially in the treaty of Versailles period offered wonderful boxed sets allowing cartridge interchangeability or sub caliber conversions for parlor shoots or indoor practice match courses of fire that now have seemingly disappeared from our collective horizons...
My SIG P210 and BHP are great examples that can be configured and converted to fire 3-5 different cartridges - I have a sub caliber kit for one of my Mauser small frame pocket pistol semiautomatics that is a Swiss watch mechanical wonder - even sitting in its wood display box with its little nested compartments it is awe inspiring...
When was the last time you saw a conversion kit allowing .22 rimfire to be used from a centerpiece bolt action Mauser clone rifle???
And Mark must greatly irritate some entrenched individuals for not only having feet firmly planted in the vintage and modern schools / cliques but he also appears to mix and swap and interchange from both monolithic cults of gun curation and use.
I am thoroughly enjoying this thread - though I may have subtly high jacked it unintentionally.
Though there remains the possibility that a few of you appreciate my input or thoughts however apropos of nothing or off target they may be.
Bravo to the OP.
Mike0 -
One thing that annoyed me about the new Walther PPK/S .22 LR: The magazines do not work in the older Walthers.
WHY? Why make it just different enough for the mags to not work?
What about the other parts? Will any of them interchange between old and new?
They were a little pricey, as was the pistol, but I did find some old Walther magazines.
My other fishing/mowing gun is a very old Llama .22 LR. Another one hard to find mags for, but they were less expensive than those for the Walther.0 -
David there was some concern at the corporate and collectors level that new production parts would be used to refurbish vintage guns - which would be passed off as original...
That it would be very easy to turn parts and frames and entire guns into made to appear or deceive copies and clones of rare old variants...
That you could take a stripped frame and slide and turn out a complete gun that most experts could not tell from the real thing...
How many 1911's contain a mix of parts that span 100 years of military and commercial and aftermarket production and how that greatly impacts value and quality and even safety...
I also think the new licensed makers were worried about liability issues from parts swapping and did not want their guns harvested for parts from day one.
The magazine issue does seem petty to me.
Mike0
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