AK47 accuracy
Got a new PSA AK the other day and have been shooting it.
The good news- Every time I pick it up I shoot 30 rounds. It is a lot of fun. It fits me and I like to handle it and carry it on my back.
There is just something about a made in the USA AK that I find attractive, not sure what. Maybe because I am a fan of capitalism and how it beat the communist bastards in the cold war.
I am getting 7" groups with it at 100 yards. Is this normal? I have always heard they are not accurate but this is the first one I have owned. I haven't tried different ammo. I have a couple thousand rounds of Herters 7.62 x 39 so figured I would shoot it up.
My SKS which shoots 4" groups at 100 yards is the same caliber and is much more accurate than the AK.
(Of course this all happened prior to me loosing the gun and ammo in a boating accident)
The good news- Every time I pick it up I shoot 30 rounds. It is a lot of fun. It fits me and I like to handle it and carry it on my back.
There is just something about a made in the USA AK that I find attractive, not sure what. Maybe because I am a fan of capitalism and how it beat the communist bastards in the cold war.
I am getting 7" groups with it at 100 yards. Is this normal? I have always heard they are not accurate but this is the first one I have owned. I haven't tried different ammo. I have a couple thousand rounds of Herters 7.62 x 39 so figured I would shoot it up.
My SKS which shoots 4" groups at 100 yards is the same caliber and is much more accurate than the AK.
(Of course this all happened prior to me loosing the gun and ammo in a boating accident)
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I have never found the AK platform to hold much accuracy. The SKS on the other hand can shoot fairly well. I would say the AK is at best with milsurp ammo a 5 MOA gun. The SKS I believe will hold an easy 3 MOA with the same ammo.
With good ammo I think they would do better, But it is a lot of causes for their crapy accuracy;
-The ammo is shoddy especially milsurp
-They are made to be robust and super reliable so the tolerances are not too close(You would not believe how many dead ragheads I have seen with a jammed AK)
-The sights suck
-The triggers suck
That is just my opinion on the AK.0 -
The sights do suck. I am going to look on the accessory market for different sights. 0 -
In the Bulgarian Army, or at least in the pre-NATO Bulgarian Army, groups of 150mm at 100 meters, or about 6 inches at 100 yards, was deemed acceptable. Rifles which could group at 100 millimeters, or a bit less than 4 inches, were set aside and issued to personnel who actually knew how to shoot, which wasn't necessarily the case for personnel in a conscript army. As Sam said, if you can get an AK to group 5 MOA with MILSURP ball ammo then you're doing okay. IMO the SKS is more accurate due in part to a better trigger, though that isn't saying much, and its Short stroke gas piston with the tilting bolt.
In any case, don't expect to out score anyone on the range who is shooting the lowest cost AR type rifle.0 -
Have shot both the AK47 and the SKS. I find both fairly accurate and accurate enough for hunting small game to deer. 0 -
Find yourself a quality built 5.45 and get the best of both worlds. My Bulgarian slr105 groups as well as any of my ARs pending correct ammo choice. 0 -
Proceramic wrote:Find yourself a quality built 5.45 and get the best of both worlds. My Bulgarian slr105 groups as well as any of my ARs pending correct ammo choice.
I had the chance to buy a Steyr 5.45 bolt action, ("Berlin Wall, East German Sniper Rifle.") Back in about 2006-2008. Here on GB. It was pricey, but very nice. I wish I could have sprung for it then. ($1,200-1,800.)
One of the ones that got away, wished I had purchased it.
That is the one I regret/think about. Quite often,0 -
KenK/84Bravo wrote:Proceramic wrote:Find yourself a quality built 5.45 and get the best of both worlds. My Bulgarian slr105 groups as well as any of my ARs pending correct ammo choice.
I had the chance to buy a Steyr 5.45 bolt action, ("Berlin Wall, East German Sniper Rifle.") Back in about 2006-2008. Here on GB. It was pricey, but very nice. I wish I could have sprung for it then. ($1,200-1,800.)
One of the ones that got away, wished I had purchased it.
That is the one I regret/think about. Quite often,
Ouch, I feel your pain on missing that one. Imagine what that same rifle goes for today. 5.45 is such an underrated caliber especially in short barrel applications.0 -
Proceramic wrote:KenK/84Bravo wrote:Proceramic wrote:Find yourself a quality built 5.45 and get the best of both worlds. My Bulgarian slr105 groups as well as any of my ARs pending correct ammo choice.
I had the chance to buy a Steyr 5.45 bolt action, ("Berlin Wall, East German Sniper Rifle.") Back in about 2006-2008. Here on GB. It was pricey, but very nice. I wish I could have sprung for it then. ($1,200-1,800.)
One of the ones that got away, wished I had purchased it.
That is the one I regret/think about. Quite often,
Ouch, I feel your pain on missing that one. Imagine what that same rifle goes for today. 5.45 is such an underrated caliber especially in short barrel applications.
I So wish I had bought that one. I regret it every since.0 -
Ken those were well made guns if kind of ruff looking.
I have shot one and I find it more accurate than say a SVD. Again the ammo is really a factor on how well they shoot.
The rifle was called the SSG-82 and they were intended as a SWAT type sniper rifle(used in the 1-300 meter range). The scopes were 4x and very bullet proof. They were SSN'ed to the gun and were not meant for much fiddling with.
Remember in the real urban/swat sniper role a good body shot at 300 meters is really what is considered ideal. Picked shots at the head around 100-200m is all that is required. The SAS used CZ sniper rifles in 22-250 for urban sniping because they wanted to minimize ricochets and collateral damage. A 55gr hollow point in a 22-250 will not exit the body in any real killing comfiguration where a 308 will.
The 5.45 Russian has some real good potential as an urban sniping round kind of like the old 22ppc especially because the round is made to cavitate and if it exits it is in fragments.
This is how the JAG got the use of the OTM ammo in 5.56 and 7.62.................ect authorized, it was made to be more accurate not more deadly.0 -
Sam06 wrote:Ken those were well made guns if kind of ruff looking.
I have shot one and I find it more accurate than say a SVD. Again the ammo is really a factor on how well they shoot.
The rifle was called the SSG-82 and they were intended as a SWAT type sniper rifle(used in the 1-300 meter range). The scopes were 4x and very bullet proof. They were SSN'ed to the gun and were not meant for much fiddling with.
Remember in the real urban/swat sniper role a good body shot at 300 meters is really what is considered ideal. Picked shots at the head around 100-200m is all that is required. The SAS used CZ sniper rifles in 22-250 for urban sniping because they wanted to minimize ricochets and collateral damage. A 55gr hollow point in a 22-250 will not exit the body in any real killing comfiguration where a 308 will.
The 5.45 Russian has some real good potential as an urban sniping round kind of like the old 22ppc especially because the round is made to cavitate and if it exits it is in fragments.
This is how the JAG got the use of the OTM ammo in 5.56 and 7.62.................ect authorized, it was made to be more accurate not more deadly.
Thanks Sam. I would love to be able to come up with the auction info. for that rifle. That is the one, out of all my GB views, that haunt me.
Just started a new job. Could not commit. Shoulda/woulda/coulda. The one that got away.0 -
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/829545383
They have become kind of spendy this is the only one I could find for sale on GB
On other sights they run about 1800-2500.
I guess CAI only imported 600 of them, the rest are overseas or in other hands. We had 2 in our foreign weapons armory.
BTW they have rear locking lugs like a Steyr SSG and a modified AK-74 magazine that holds 5-6 rounds.0 -
Sam06 wrote:Ken those were well made guns if kind of ruff looking.
I have shot one and I find it more accurate than say a SVD. Again the ammo is really a factor on how well they shoot.
The rifle was called the SSG-82 and they were intended as a SWAT type sniper rifle(used in the 1-300 meter range). The scopes were 4x and very bullet proof. They were SSN'ed to the gun and were not meant for much fiddling with.
Remember in the real urban/swat sniper role a good body shot at 300 meters is really what is considered ideal. Picked shots at the head around 100-200m is all that is required. The SAS used CZ sniper rifles in 22-250 for urban sniping because they wanted to minimize ricochets and collateral damage. A 55gr hollow point in a 22-250 will not exit the body in any real killing comfiguration where a 308 will.
The 5.45 Russian has some real good potential as an urban sniping round kind of like the old 22ppc especially because the round is made to cavitate and if it exits it is in fragments.
This is how the JAG got the use of the OTM ammo in 5.56 and 7.62.................ect authorized, it was made to be more accurate not more deadly.
The nice thing about the design of the 5.45 is that it'll over stabilize when hitting a hard target and will yaw when it hits soft tissue. I'm really surprised that nobody has designed a 5.56 with the hollow nose cavity like the 7n6. Another cool thing is that it will perform the same even with low
velocity ammo.0 -
it should be doing better than 7 MOA. take off anything on the muzzle, check your shooting stance, don't rest the magazine on a bench, check the bolt for being out of alignment by looking for weird scrape marks on the outside and putting lipstick on a cartridge rim to see that the bolt face contacts it evenly,
it's not the ammo if you're using Herter's. I believe that 's made by S&B and better than any combloc milsurp irregardless.
and finally have someone else try shooting it.0 -
Sam06 wrote:https://www.gunbroker.com/item/829545383
They have become kind of spendy this is the only one I could find for sale on GB
On other sights they run about 1800-2500.
I guess CAI only imported 600 of them, the rest are overseas or in other hands. We had 2 in our foreign weapons armory.
BTW they have rear locking lugs like a Steyr SSG and a modified AK-74 magazine that holds 5-6 rounds.
Dayum. The $1200-$1500 asking price would have been a bargain. Oh, .............. to go back again.0 -
OK :
I have an AK ( wasr ?)? The "cheap" $300 version from years ago : We sold bunches : I kept one ? Glad I did :
Havent shot it in a while ?
But :
I can hit a white ( 9 inch ) paper plate any where from 50to 100 yards off hand :
Good enough for me !!!
Dont expect much more ::: Good Enough for Me !!!!!
Thanks !!!0 -
buschmaster wrote:it should be doing better than 7 MOA. take off anything on the muzzle, check your shooting stance, don't rest the magazine on a bench, check the bolt for being out of alignment by looking for weird scrape marks on the outside and putting lipstick on a cartridge rim to see that the bolt face contacts it evenly,
it's not the ammo if you're using Herter's. I believe that 's made by S&B and better than any combloc milsurp irregardless.
and finally have someone else try shooting it.
Agree. I will have to get serious about it and see if it shoots a little better.0 -
Sam06 wrote:https://www.gunbroker.com/item/829545383
They have become kind of spendy this is the only one I could find for sale on GB
On other sights they run about 1800-2500.
I guess CAI only imported 600 of them, the rest are overseas or in other hands. We had 2 in our foreign weapons armory.
BTW they have rear locking lugs like a Steyr SSG and a modified AK-74 magazine that holds 5-6 rounds.
Sam, Remington 788 has rear locking lugs.. Likely one of the most underrated and ACCURATE rifles ever made.. l think Remington made 788s but one way.. Cheap and Ugly
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Let me paraphrase what Kalashnikov said around 70 years ago: My rifle was designed to engage human targets up to 300 meters.
It was designed to operate reliable under most extreme conditions and be easy for anyone to maintain.
IMHO, there is none better. Over 50 million made speaks for itself.0 -
Try some Hornady SST steel case hunting ammo. It is far more accurate in a couple of my 7.62x39 rifles. 0 -
Get yourself some Golden Tiger 124gr FMJ 7.62x39. The boat tail design helps its accuracy.
Back when I was really into shooting AK's I was able to get a 2 inch 100yd group out of 1 of my home built Romanian G AK's using Golden Tiger. That AK is a little tighter than some of my other ones.
1000rds:
https://tinyurl.com/y6rxd6b6
500rds:
https://tinyurl.com/yxms6svz0 -
you might check to see if the gas block trunnion is loose. take off the forearm/gas piston stuff, grab the receiver and barrel, see if it wiggles up and down or side to side, or if it rotates. 0 -
Ak47 sights suck, especially for older eyes. I installed one of these https://www.tech-sights.com/ak-products/ and my groups shrank to half the size. 0 -
steve45 wrote:Ak47 sights suck, especially for older eyes. I installed one of these https://www.tech-sights.com/ak-products/ and my groups shrank to half the size.
That is a great idea!0 -
They double the sight radius and peeps work for me. It does make it a little harder to field strip, which may make a difference if this is your SHTF rifle. It really made a difference in group size for me. 0 -
Do they make a Mojo Microclick sight for the AK series?
I would think so. I have one on my Mosin Nagant M44.
"A donut in a donut," if you replace the front sight post as well as the rear. It is very intuitive, quick to aquire, and just works. Very well made, and around $100.
Highly recommend them.0 -
steve45 wrote:Ak47 sights suck, especially for older eyes. I installed one of these https://www.tech-sights.com/ak-products/ and my groups shrank to half the size.
Yep, first thing I do with all my aks except I use XS blade night sites. https://www.xssights.com/Detail.aspx?PROD=993096&CAT=82730 -
"The boat tail design helps its accuracy."
Except on specific rifles' ammo preference, boattails don't help anything until well beyond the normal 7.62x39 ranges.
I have a couple of 7.62x39 AR's that will give 1.5-2 MOA with handloaded ammo but everything else (except the Hornady SST) is 3 MOA or greater. My Remington 799 gets close to that magical 1 MOA with the SST's if I can manage the atrocious trigger well enough. All that other stuff is just that "stuff" when it comes to accuracy. Sometimes you find an acorn but not often.0
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