We will never learn
You cannot trust a muslim to keep a promise except the promise that he will kill you and lie to you.
From the BBC
C&P
The United States would withdraw 5,400 troops from Afghanistan within 20 weeks as part of a deal "in principle" with Taliban militants, Washington's top negotiator has said.
Zalmay Khalilzad revealed details of the long-awaited deal for the first time in a TV interview after briefing Afghan leaders on the agreement.
But he said final approval still rested with US President Donald Trump.
A huge blast rocked Kabul as the interview aired.
The Taliban said it was behind the attack, which used a bomb strapped to a tractor to kill at least 16 people and injure at least another 119.
The target was a residential compound housing foreigners, just outside the city's heavily-fortified Green Zone.
However, it was Afghan civilians who paid the highest price. By morning, about 400 foreigners had been escorted out of the area as anger bubbled over onto the streets. Locals set fire to tyres and blocked a main road, demanding foreigners leave the area for good.
"This is not the first time we suffer because of them," resident Abdul Jamil told news agency AFP. "We don't want them here any more."
This is a terrible mistake, it shows a sign of weakness on our part.
But everyone wants to get out of Afghanistan....................why I don't know, because this war has not effected one person in the US except Soldiers and their family's and the soldiers volunteered to be soldiers. Its not like WW2 with food and gas rationing and every family was effected.
From the BBC
C&P
The United States would withdraw 5,400 troops from Afghanistan within 20 weeks as part of a deal "in principle" with Taliban militants, Washington's top negotiator has said.
Zalmay Khalilzad revealed details of the long-awaited deal for the first time in a TV interview after briefing Afghan leaders on the agreement.
But he said final approval still rested with US President Donald Trump.
A huge blast rocked Kabul as the interview aired.
The Taliban said it was behind the attack, which used a bomb strapped to a tractor to kill at least 16 people and injure at least another 119.
The target was a residential compound housing foreigners, just outside the city's heavily-fortified Green Zone.
However, it was Afghan civilians who paid the highest price. By morning, about 400 foreigners had been escorted out of the area as anger bubbled over onto the streets. Locals set fire to tyres and blocked a main road, demanding foreigners leave the area for good.
"This is not the first time we suffer because of them," resident Abdul Jamil told news agency AFP. "We don't want them here any more."
This is a terrible mistake, it shows a sign of weakness on our part.
But everyone wants to get out of Afghanistan....................why I don't know, because this war has not effected one person in the US except Soldiers and their family's and the soldiers volunteered to be soldiers. Its not like WW2 with food and gas rationing and every family was effected.
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Sam, I do not know if we need to get out of Afghanistan or not, or what type of forces and other assets we would need there if we stayed. But, on the loss of men, that they volunteered doesn't change the fact I do not want more dying there needlessly. So, if we really need to be there then we do, if we don't then move them out of harms way. They are Americans and I do not want them dying baby sitting someplace if it can't be fixed.
I know history shows us the price of unintended consequences when we pull out to early. A lot of the issues post WWII, including the rise of communism in China,the Korean War, and the Vietnam war could have been prevented had we stayed around post WWII. But the nation was tired of being in far away lands and we wanted our boys home. Is Afghanistan a place we need to stay to prevent something worse down the road? I don't know, I hope someone does and the best decisions are made. But, volunteers or not, if our men don't need to be there, bring them home.0 -
Not taking any position on this one yet Sam, I'm not, to date, educated enough on this topic. As the student of history that you are, has anyone ever been able to truly tame Afghanistan or any of the surrounding areas? (Or the Balkans either for that matter.) From a distance, as with Iraq, Libya, etc. it appears that only a despot willing to kill anyone and lay waste to entire regions can even begin to keep a lid on these places. We watched the Russians get bled white only to eventually have to haul a** out of there. 0 -
Part of me just wants to let them fight and kill themselves and each other then we can mop up what's left in that area. But, the rational side of me knows not everyone in that area wants that life. Like many things, it is the few extremist that give a group a bad name. 0 -
i think some places could only be cured with one big bomb 0 -
spasmcreek wrote:i think some places could only be cured with one big bomb
+1
Or a persistent nerve agent.
My thoughts on this are simple, fight them over there. We are not loosing many soldiers over there in direct combat most are shot by so called friendly's.
This is an all volunteer army and they are trained and expected to fight and even die. I kills me when we loose a soldier but that is a fact of life. There are a least 30 guys I know who will not ever be with their family again and over twice that many who will never be the same, including me but that is price of keeping these ragheads contained.
We cannot and must not trust any muslim to keep their word/promise/treaty. They will not do it and feel no remorse in breaking those promises especially to Christians.
The taliban is a terrorist organization and we should not even be talking to them. We set up and support a Gov in Kabul how do you think they feel with us in negations with an entity that wants to destroy them.0 -
Sam06 wrote:spasmcreek wrote:i think some places could only be cured with one big bomb
The taliban is a terrorist organization and we should not even be talking to them. We set up and support a Gov in Kabul how do you think they feel with us in negations with an entity that wants to destroy them.
Yes,a US Central Intelligence Agency created organization. It's doing exactly what it was designed to.0 -
Our still being there is, IMO, evidence that we will never learn.
There are many places on this planet that will never be truly governed. Afghanistan is one of these places.
The longer we stay there, the more people will become dead.
The end result, whether we leave tomorrow or in 20 years, will be the same.
We went in as a knee-jerk response to the attacks of 11 September, 2001 with little understanding of how to achieve that which we said we wished to achieve.
We made a mistake and, it is fairly obvious to most that the taliban will eventually return to power. We have no reason to trust them, but we have no reason to trust the current corrupt government we are supporting either.
It is past time to get out regardless of whether we have an agreement in place or not.0 -
when do we get off our feel good azz and KILL THEM ALL DEAD.....by the easiest anyway possible...seems so unreal when the highest tech army in the world is beat down by primitives...i REMEMBER vids when the NV came into Saigon with old bolt action rifles and wearing rags and sandals...guess that is what u get with political leaders instead of warriors...... 0 -
They have been fighting and killing since the prophet made the trek back to Mecca. Convert or be doomed. Nothing new here. 0 -
They brought the fight to us. We need to keep fighting until they no longer want to fight. 0 -
wiplash wrote:They brought the fight to us. We need to keep fighting until they no longer want to fight.
True.
(But) We either need to get in there in Force, and squash them as necessary, or GTF out. Vietnam all over. Political Correctness run Amock.
I agree with Don here.
Why have our Guys/Girls walking around being targets, IED's etc.
Get in heavy and get it done, or GTF out. We have the technology and the capability. If we are going to go to War, then F'n got to WAR. Stop pussy footing around.
My two cents worth.0 -
President Trump is just doing this to go for The Head of the snake instead of the tail. You can bet on it. Doing Bussiness in NY means you go through Mafia union bosses first! Remeber A fish with his mouth closed never get's caught.
serf
https://nypost.com/2018/09/29/the-new-mafia-is-wising-up-and-keeping-quiet/0 -
wiplash wrote:They brought the fight to us. We need to keep fighting until they no longer want to fight.
Did the Taliban or the government of Afghanistan bring the fight to us?
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2001/oct/14/afghanistan.terrorism5
The Taliban offered to discuss turning over Bin Laden in October of 2001 in exchange for a cease fire.
We refused. Would it have resulted in Bin Laden being turned over?
Maybe not, but in our blood lust we dismissed the possibility.
Almost 150,000 have been killed in Afghanistan since we went in in 2001. Over 1/4 of these, almost 40,000, were non-combatants.
This compares to 2,996 who were killed on 11 September, 2001. If you were an Afghani, where would you stand?
Around 300,000 Iraqis have been killed since we invaded in 2003, with well over 100,000 of these being non-combatants.
If you were an Iraqi, where would you stand?
As a direct result of the US invading these two countries, over 150,000 non-combatants have been killed either by those we are fighting or by us.
So we should 'keep fighting until they no longer want to fight'.
To your point:
If an occupying force was in the US of A, how long would it take for you to 'no longer want to fight'?0 -
Don McManus wrote:wiplash wrote:They brought the fight to us. We need to keep fighting until they no longer want to fight.
Did the Taliban or the government of Afghanistan bring the fight to us?
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2001/oct/14/afghanistan.terrorism5
The Taliban offered to discuss turning over Bin Laden in October of 2001 in exchange for a cease fire.
We refused. Would it have resulted in Bin Laden being turned over?
Maybe not, but in our blood lust we dismissed the possibility.
Almost 150,000 have been killed in Afghanistan since we went in in 2001. Over 1/4 of these, almost 40,000, were non-combatants.
This compares to 2,996 who were killed on 11 September, 2001. If you were an Afghani, where would you stand?
Around 300,000 Iraqis have been killed since we invaded in 2003, with well over 100,000 of these being non-combatants.
If you were an Iraqi, where would you stand?
As a direct result of the US invading these two countries, over 150,000 non-combatants have been killed either by those we are fighting or by us.
So we should 'keep fighting until they no longer want to fight'.
To your point:
If an occupying force was in the US of A, how long would it take for you to 'no longer want to fight'?
What was that saying about there being only two types of Muslims?
They are spreading all over the World and bringing they're Hatred for anyone thats not like them, with them. How many of those Non-Combatants were in front of the Talibans when the shooting started?0
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