do your stolen guns get destroyed?
from another thread,
wait a minute. a stolen gun, is now in the possession of a thief, who is probably already a felon, and probably will use it in another crime, if he doesn't sell it to some other felon who will use it in a crime.
they get caught with the gun. the cops take it away. are they going to return the stolen gun to the rightful owner, or are they going to destroy it?
mrmike08075 wrote:Destruction of firearms used in a crime or taken from a felon or turned in at a gun buy back often get destroyed. I know of several departments that keep them and sell them - but we are not talking legally owned guns - and if you turned it over for sneakers or some groceries that's on you - most of these guns are unusable garbage
The reality is they often get scrapped - recycled - we make more new guns then they destroy old ones by a ridiculous margin
wait a minute. a stolen gun, is now in the possession of a thief, who is probably already a felon, and probably will use it in another crime, if he doesn't sell it to some other felon who will use it in a crime.
they get caught with the gun. the cops take it away. are they going to return the stolen gun to the rightful owner, or are they going to destroy it?
0
-
I had a bunch of guns plus other things stolen from my house back in ?03. Insurance paid for it all.
I asked a policeman, that if found, in a pawn shop or from an arrest, would I get them back. He informed me, that since insurance paid, they would be returned to the insurance company, and that they never wanted them.0 -
I had a Ruger Single-Six stolen from my pickup. Two years later, it was recovered in Colorado and shipped back to my city police, who dutifully returned it to me. The .22LR cylinder I had in the same bag was never found, but I got a replacement. I had not made an insurance claim. 0 -
I had a home break-in back about 6 years ago. It was a "inside" job. Someone knew that the house would be empty for the whole day.
Everything like tv,s radios, kitchen appliances were stolen.
Along with my collection of old pistols. I had a built-in wall glass front display. In it was over 45 pistols. Basically, I collected every pistol listed in the 1909 Sears catalog.
Now most were not big buck guns, lots of Hopkins &Allen, Iver Johnson, and the like.
A few money guns were there also.
All my "normal" guns were hidden in a gun room that was not "visible" from the inside of the house.
The Sheriff took all the info, but had the attitude that the old pistols were gone forever.
Said if any were found or used by a caught perp, the owner {me} rarely gets them back.
He was right.0 -
I have taken a lot of burglary/burglary of motor vehicle/theft reports, in which guns were stolen. It was very rare that the victim was able to provide the serial number. Very often, they didn't know the brand.
"It was a pump .22; that's all I know. but it has a scratch on the stock, so I'll know it if I see it again." "It was an old silver .38 pistol." (Was it a revolver or a semi-auto?) "I don't know."
Well, when you are making an entry in NCIC/TCIC, there is no place to put "it has a scratch on the stock." Make, model, caliber, type, serial number, please.
Even if we do have the serial number and can make the entry, the gun can be sold or traded to an otherwise honest citizen who got it at a real bargain in a flea market, and who rarely is stopped and searched by the police. He can wear the gun out using it, sell it, pass it on to his progeny, etc. and never draw attention to himself or the gun. Of course, if a police officer ever has a chance to have this gun in hand, and he checks the database for stolen, the gun will show stolen and be seized. This seizure may take place years after the theft, and the person from which it was seized may have had nothing to do with the crime, and he will likely not be arrested, but he'll lose the gun. The police will then make an effort to return the gun to its rightful owner.
Let's get back to the gun reported stolen, but the owner had no serial number to put on the report, so the gun is not in the stolen database. Like the first example, it can change hands many times, among honest citizens. Or, it can be used in a crime, or found in possession of someone prohibited from possessing a firearm. Now it is in the hands of the police. The police run the gun through the computer and it is not reported stolen. The gun gets tagged, logged, and put in the property room, where it sits, often for many years.
Then there are also guns that are never reported stolen by their owners. It happens.
So, the police get a lot of guns stored and rusting in their property rooms. At some point, a judge will sign an order, forfeiting the guns to the PD or SO, and will specify what is to become of them. For many years, the guns were almost universally destroyed. I have supervised the destruction of a few.
In recent years, some agencies have begun to sell their seized/surplus firearms, which is a pretty smart move, IMNSHO. I have done some business with a nearby auction house that handles such sales, and have gotten some pretty cool stuff, and some real junk. I have sold some here on Gunbroker, I have broken some down for parts, and I have found a few "keepers" in the mix. AND...I have infused the local PD or SO with several thousands of dollars that they wouldn't have gotten had they destroyed the guns.0 -
I keep a paper log of every gun I've ever owned. When and where bought, from whom, for how much, serial number, description, plus the same details if sold. Recently, I've started updating the log with current estimated values, in case I kick the bucket. Wouldn't want my wife to get toasted by some dealer.
That log is how I got the Single-Six back.0 -
Had a ex-employee steal a pistol from me and he sold it to a unknown, I reported the theft & info to the Sheriffs Dept. and sometime @ a year or so later they called
asking if I'd like the info to remain on the stolen list ????.....my answer, Damn right I do !!, I always thought once it was entered on the computer as stolen it remained there until it showed up. I thought later I should've called back to find out why they called, I never got around to it though (maybe someone dropped the ball), I'm still at a loss as to why the call ??0 -
Perhaps it's because some people never report them recovered by some means other than the police. As in "I thought it was stolen, but found it in the back of the safe today." 0 -
Had a pistol stolen at a Gun Show, in Indiana back in 1999. It was recovered about 6 months ago, 2018.
Police said I could come and pick it up with, Just needed State ID
Told them I am now living in KY, was told I had to have Indiana State ID to pick it up. Explained it was taken from a Gun Show where I was a FFL Dealer. and Still have a valid FFL. Supervisor said that did not matter and I need to have IN State ID.
PD tracked me down thru the BATF. But still will not release to me or my FFL . Will not even have a FFL from Indiana, take position to send to me.
They will hold up to 3 years, it will be sent to Auction or destroyed.
It was AMT Back up and was not reported to the insurance. I had less than $ 100.00 in it. Oh well.0 -
Rocky Raab wrote:Perhaps it's because some people never report them recovered by some means other than the police. As in "I thought it was stolen, but found it in the back of the safe today."
Yep, I remember having that thought too, the reason I didn't call back.....many just 'think" it's stolen and later finding it but fail reporting it as found. I suppose they were just trying to help
0 -
Rocky Raab wrote:I keep a paper log of every gun I've ever owned. When and where bought, from whom, for how much, serial number, description, plus the same details if sold. Recently, I've started updating the log with current estimated values, in case I kick the bucket. Wouldn't want my wife to get toasted by some dealer.
That log is how I got the Single-Six back.
I should be doing the same. I've been giving thought to those that will come after my passing, knowing/figuring out what things are worth.
I'd like Ricci or Locust Fork to divest my meager "collection."
Keep waiting for either, (hint, hint) to come up with a "how to" get in contact with me, what I do type thing (paperwork package) to leave in the safe.
Kasey has spoken of it several times. Since a few of my more "Crappy," firearms have come from Ricci, ( ) he is in the running also.
I implicitly trust Kasey, and her reputation is impeccable. Ricci, (meh.............................................)
Just kidding Brother. I "Trust," you.0 -
Rocky Raab wrote:I keep a paper log of every gun I've ever owned. When and where bought, from whom, for how much, serial number, description, plus the same details if sold. Recently, I've started updating the log with current estimated values, in case I kick the bucket. Wouldn't want my wife to get toasted by some dealer.
That log is how I got the Single-Six back.
I too have a log book with every firearm listed as you do ....paper and on computer too.0 -
buschmaster wrote:from another thread,mrmike08075 wrote:Destruction of firearms used in a crime or taken from a felon or turned in at a gun buy back often get destroyed. I know of several departments that keep them and sell them - but we are not talking legally owned guns - and if you turned it over for sneakers or some groceries that's on you - most of these guns are unusable garbage
The reality is they often get scrapped - recycled - we make more new guns then they destroy old ones by a ridiculous margin
wait a minute. a stolen gun, is now in the possession of a thief, who is probably already a felon, and probably will use it in another crime, if he doesn't sell it to some other felon who will use it in a crime.
they get caught with the gun. the cops take it away. are they going to return the stolen gun to the rightful owner, or are they going to destroy it?
Store I worked at was broke into and about 8 long guns taken. The crooks were caught speeding several states away with the firearms in the back seat. The guns were returned to the Dept. of Criminal Investigation in the state they were taken from. The state was going to destroy them but after some intervention and signing a 'release of liability' for the state, they were finally return. The whole thing took about a year or just a bit more.
The crooks, negros, 3 guys and a girl, got about a year in the pen then turned loose. All had previous run ins with the law.0 -
Yes if an owner can not be identified or is not willing to retrieve them. Just like we do with our guns/drugs/evidence that is no longer needed for court proceedings, a destruction order is obtained from the Circuit Court Judge and they are destroyed. We also destroy our lost and found once or twice a year, except bikes they go to Goodwill. We do not resell them. 0 -
Yes if an owner can not be identified or is not willing to retrieve them. Just like we do with our guns/drugs/evidence that is no longer needed for court proceedings, a destruction order is obtained from the Circuit Court Judge and they are destroyed. We also destroy our lost and found once or twice a year, except bikes they go to Goodwill. We do not resell them.
WHY NOT?
Bikes are good but guns are bad?0 -
okayyy the answers are Yes, No, Maybe, "it depends" on the first two, and it definitely won't be going to the Goodwill unless it's welded onto a bicycle. 0 -
First the bicycles are not sold, they are donated to Goodwill, secondly it's not my decision. One of the likely answer is they do a blanket destruction order, so if they want to keep a gun they'd have to do separate, specific order for the judge to sign for each gun and it's far easier to do them in large group. The goal for them is to clear out space, because our evidence room is far to small. Managing the evidence room is fortunately not one of my responsibilities. Most of the guns that are destroyed are junk anyways. We don't resell or donate the knives either...lol...and far more knives get destroyed than guns.nunn wrote:Yes if an owner can not be identified or is not willing to retrieve them. Just like we do with our guns/drugs/evidence that is no longer needed for court proceedings, a destruction order is obtained from the Circuit Court Judge and they are destroyed. We also destroy our lost and found once or twice a year, except bikes they go to Goodwill. We do not resell them.
WHY NOT?
Bikes are good but guns are bad?0 -
I do not know anyone who has had a stolen gun recovered and returned to them - I am not familiar with a single incident of this occurring...
Given my history of working 20+ years in a gunshop and doing the east coast gun show circuit - having at the peak acquired over 400 firearms - being a certified range safety officer and instructor since the age of 18 - my gun club membership and shooting sports experience you would think that at least once such an event would have been witnessed or mentioned...
I know any number of folk whom have had guns stolen - who have had some payout issued by homeowners insurance or a secondary policy of some sort - but none who had a gun returned - not one not ever.
Many including my father carry a list of the stolen pieces and their serial numbers in their wallet - in case they ever come across one of the pieces at a gun show...
I know the argument that says there are linked data bases that have this information to track stolen guns - yet I have never witnessed this information being used to return a stolen gun to its owner...
The only occasion I ever witnessed were authorities showed up to investigate or track down stolen guns involved a dozen Beretta's stolen from the air force - some of which had been purchased from a gunshop by active duty members of the army and air force - this involved ncis and provost marshals and MP's and constabulary and inspector generals working with state police and the batf - and I consider the incident an anomaly.
As I have noted previously many LEO agencies or departments sell their confiscated and recovered firearms to brokers or distributors or at auction - I have purchased such guns with evidence tags still attached.
Many agencies destroy the recovered guns - but as noted it is regularly discovered that the higher end pieces don't end up being destroyed but are surreptitiously removed and retained for personal use or sold for profit.
If you work in a gunshop I guarantee you have purchased and sold stolen guns - that don't get flagged in any way because the system were it actually exists is a mess.
I believe many of us here on the boards have bought or sold a stolen gun without being aware of it...
In addition once an individual has been paid out for stolen guns by insurance I think the chances of them getting notification of the gun being recovered or returned drops to near zero.
Mike0 -
My cousin had a browning .22 semi auto rifle his father gave him stolen from his pickup.
He reported it stolen with the make/model and serial number.
Some 20+ years later, it was returned to him. A highway worker in the same state had found it propped against a tree along a rural highway and the sheriff of that country tracked him down and he got it back.
The wood was badly weathered and the metal was all rust and pitted ~ but it was returned.0 -
I had six guns stolen by a juvie burglar. The ones out of the safe for cleaning, tuning, and shooting. I reported it promptly and in detail.
Four were still in his stolen car two nights later when he wrecked it fleeing from police after an attempt on a business with alarm.
The police on duty recognized them from my list, called me at 2:00 AM and simply handed them over.
The other two were under his bed at Momma's house, she turned them in and I collected them with a signature on the appropriate form a few days later.
Unfortunately, when I was stowing them away properly I discovered another gun gone. The PD would not let me append it to the original report so I entered a fresh one. I eventually concluded that Junior hadn't taken that one, it would have been in the car or at Momma's house.
The only other recent entry to the house was by window installers and I suspect one of them took it. Long gone.
Many seized guns are destroyed. Maybe the last legal owner did not give an adequate description to get it back, or not report it at all.
Add that to a political position to keep "crime guns" "off the street"; I think of it as capital punishment for the instrument, not the criminal.
I have seen advertisements from a couple of companies who do business in destruction of such "crime guns." They sell "parts kits" with the receiver cut in half to eliminate it as a "firearm." Of course there are places with a political position that calls for "melting crime guns down into manhole covers" or welding them up into "anti violence" sculpture.
The PD here destroys common, cheap, or damaged seized untraceable guns. The good ones go for "training." The official position is that they want to teach non-enthusiast policemen how to handle and render safe a gun that may be considerably different from their issue weapon.0 -
Makes perfect sense...
Guns are evil. Take them from criminals and execute them! THE GUNS!
Then put the criminal back on the street.0 -
Shame on agencies that destroy firearms, even the cheap ones. It's just wasteful.
Once upon a time, we were a "snob" agency. We cut up the cheap guns, but had the judge award the "good" guns to the PD for "training" and other internal use. Once the guns were awarded to the PD, they were removed from the property room to the armory, my turf. Well, that was OK up to a point. We used the S&W revolvers, and the S&W and Ruger semi-autos for training, but most of the long guns just took up space. One day, I was tasked with making an inventory of the "good" guns, and submitting it to the chief. He had made a deal with some cop shop out of state to trade them for some service pistols. We were ready to ship, when one of the Dallas news stations ran a story that disturbed the chief. Seems a suburban chief sent some of his seized weapons to the same cop shop we were about to do business with, and a disgruntled copper dropped a dime on him. News reported, "Area police chief puts guns back on the street. More at 10 pm." Well, our chief saw that and canceled the deal.
So, I was then tasked with supervising the destruction of our "good" guns. We kept the S&Ws and Rugers, but the rest went under the torch, all except for one 1892 Winchester that the property manager could not bear seeing cut up. As far as I know, that rifle is still there. It was when I retired anyway. So, I loaded the guns up and took them to the service center where there is a torch. The guys at the service center cut them up, and I documented their work. I don't remember everything we cut, but a few stand out. A nice 1911 Colt, a pristine Browning Hi-Power, a Winchester Super X shotgun. With permission, I kept the stag grips off the Colt, and one of the mechanics kept the top end off the Browning. That was my last time to cut guns. I had cut cheapies before that, several times, but this was the last time.
I understand the PD has consigned or will consign their seized guns to an auction house, but I don't know which one. I have filed an information request, but have yet to receive a reply.
Wholesale destruction was once the way things were done, but a few courageous chiefs and sheriffs are seeing the folly of trashing their seized guns, and the wisdom and profit in selling them.
The agencies I have bought from are mostly smallish rural SOs and one PD. I have spent thousands of dollars with these agencies, which I suppose they put to good use.
Someone mentioned that sometimes the "good" guns manage to find their way home with officers. Maybe that happens, but I have not seen it. After one sale, the chief deputy asked me about a particular piece. He said the sheriff wanted it, and asked me to price it to him. I was impressed by the sheriff's honesty. I know there are more than a few that would have figured out a way to have that gun "issued" to him, for "official use," but not this one. I could not legally sell it face-to-face, and the sheriff was out of town, so I could not arrange a transfer through a local FFL. I took the gun home, booked it in, and compared values with the closed auctions on Gunbroker. I then emailed the sheriff and offered the gun to him at a substantial discount, a lot less than comparable sales. He accepted the deal, and I shipped the gun to the dealer of his choice.
I did the same for another officer at another agency. I made him a heck of a deal on a S&W 66. All these guys played strictly by the rules, at least in my presence.
Sometimes, mistakes are made though. I won't go into them here, but suffice to state that most cops aren't "gun people," and they may have a little trouble describing a gun accurately.
In general, I am very happy with the agencies that sell off their seized weapons, and I encourage all those that don't, to do so.0 -
I've had two stolen guns returned. One was insured. I called the insurance company after I was notified it was found and they said because of the value, they weren't needing paid back nor would get it back.
One, the cops called and I went down and showed them my ID and left in 10 minutes with the gun.
The second one, was a little different (different state though). I got notified and actually had to go to court to show proof of ownership. The interesting thing is the 'new' owner was there too. He did have a receipt for it, but since mine preceded his and it had been reported stolen before his ownership, there was no dispute. I talked to him afterwards outside of the courtroom and he said he took it on trade for labor years before. It only got flagged because he did a short-term pawn and I guess the shop has to do a S/N check in order for them to pick it back up. He offered to buy it from me but since it was one of my very first handguns, I declined but we exchanged info. For the next month or two I would send him links to auctions here on GB along with talking about the process. He said thanks but never followed up so no idea if he got one or not. I felt sorry for him as I genuinely think he was just caught in the middle. Ever since then, most of mine are S/N checked at the time of purchase. Kind of a CYA thing...0
Please sign in to leave a comment.
Comments
22 comments