another auction side oddity..
Hope I don't seem like I'm the auction side C&P'r, but this is another one that really caught my eye... Hopefully someone here could shed some light on it's design..
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/813090801
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/813090801
0
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I got nothing.
Sorry........
I do like the scope though....0 -
toad67 wrote:Hope I don't seem like I'm the auction side C&P'r, but this is another one that really caught my eye... Hopefully someone here could shed some light on it's design..
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/813090801
edit: In no way do I believe that the stock is original to the gun, but the action is very different..0 -
Its possibly the Mauser action that Mike was talking about yesterday that copied the 1900 Certus action.
It was on the Darne shotgun thread..........
I'll bet Mike shows up soon and weighs in on it......0 -
Looks like a standard (albeit modified and refinished) military '98 Mauser action to me, including the thumb cut/notch on the left side, directly ahead of the bolt release. The hump of the stripped clip guide has been trimmed down, too. 0 -
https://images.app.goo.gl/qpKgTogtHtsefdW58
You gentlemen sometimes task me - you vex me...
In the OP starting this thread the pictured rifle is most likely a commercial FN Mauser 98 action of standard architecture and design specification - the most common and families progenitor from which more patent infringements fall from than raindrops from the sky during a monsoon...
I would hazard a guess that beyond the basic research anchor point links I have posted here including one for a mosin nagant bolt action that the best person to answer your question in more detail based on the configuration and chambering would be the esteemed member and noted expert Nononsense...
Also look at American riflemen from 1988 and I believe there is an in depth article on a similar thumb hole bullpup long range bench rest or prone custom rifle build...
I hope that this answer is satisfactory - please don't forget to turn off the bat signal...
Mike0 -
I don't think the rings are high enough. 0 -
Mr. Mike the best person to answer your question in more detail based on the configuration and chambering would be the esteemed member and noted expert Nononsense...
I thank you for the kind words of encouragement but they probably brought on significant gag reflex in a few members...
It is indeed a Bullpup configured rifle and unusual based on the numbers of this design which we might run into given our travels and visitations to gun shows. It is not a popular design unfortunately because I for one enjoy shooting them since they fit me so well. But most folks just can't get over having the action that close to their face.
As to the action, again unfortunately, the seller did a very mediocre job of photography considering he could accomplish getting the photos but misses the boat on content. The pictures should be used to tell a story and document condition, his fail in the vast majority especially considering the action. Most of what we can see leaves a lot to our imagination as to what it really looks like and I'm not one for supposition using poor pictures.
There are a couple of points to be made readily:
- It is a Mauser M98 variant. But since it has been 'sanitized' or scrubbed, there is literally no significant information we can derive from the pictures.
- Once again, the thumb notch in Mauser M98s is NOT indicative of being a military action. All commercial actions had the very same notch until FN changed the design to a solid wall in 1957.
- Yes the stripper clip 'hump' has been ground down unfortunately. It's not necessary but some idiot at one time or another decided it was the thing to do...
Without marking or stamps, we're left to our own devices to determine any other information.
Bullpup rifles
"A ?bullpup? is a type of firearm with its action and trigger behind the trigger group. This setup reduces overall length and weight substantially while not sacrificing barrel length and velocity.
They?re short, compact, and easy to handle, but still have the same accuracy as long-barrel rifles, shotguns, and sub-machine guns."
https://www.pewpewtactical.com/best-bullpup-rifles-shotguns/
This is a list of current rifle using the Bullpup configuration:
Ruger 10/22 Bullpup Kit
Tavor SAR Flattop B16
Desert Tech SRS A1
Desert Tech MDR
FN F2000
FN PS90
Kel-Tec KSG
Mossberg 500 Bullpup
Steyr AUG
Best.0 -
Nice scope but the gun is, well not to nice.
I would imagine having your face right on the action when firing would be a little disturbing and detrimental to accuracy.
Other than that it might be a good gun0 -
I cannot keep up with all of the class nomenclature and associations name changes that take place in the world of shooting sports...
There has always been a dedicated group (from entry level hobbyist to sponsored and salaried professional) of serious long range bench rest or prone heavy rifle shooters / hand loaders / cartridge developers / gunsmith patrons dedicated to the pursuit of long range accuracy...
Notably as of late is "F" class - but in many avenues of the sport the look and architecture of the rifles has in some cases radically departed from what most of us recognize as a traditional rifle design template and structure.
Some rifles approach weight levels so high that you could not carry the gun afield (say 14-20+ lbs in some cases) and some rifles no longer have the standard lines of a stock built to carry and mount to shoulder and fire unsupported...
There are essential heavy barrelled actions that look like a brick bolted to a bench - in the pursuit of a stable platform resistant to any outside influences that might have a negative effect on accuracy and on what is called repeatable proven consistency of function.
And it's nothing new - some of the target or parlour or long range hunting and competition rifles pre 1900 have wildly radical appointments and accessories and design elements...
I have an FN commercial Mauser action based heavyweight and bull barreled rifle chambered in .14 Donaldson wasp and it has 3 stocks amongst it's support accessories - an overbuilt silhouette profile stock - a flat bottomed heavy bench rest profile stock - and a fiberglass bullpup bench or prone only stock.
I did not build out the gun or spec out and order the work done - the gun found me one day and fell into my lap for pennies on the dollar. It was built to take to the range and place many shots into one hole at long distances.
It has no practical real world use - but it's a fun gun for me because the projectiles are rather small and l find it challenging to produce a proper one hole or all touching group based on weather conditions - as the wind and other environmental factors effect point of impact and stability in flight...
It's a world I peek in on and it's interesting to see how the guns and accessories and skills change and adapt to achieve there goal.
And there is the hand loading aspect as well.
Mike0 -
With that scope about 4 inches above the bore, I would love to see the trajectory charts. :shock:
With the not so great 6mm remington round.
Probably twice as bad as this:0 -
Thanks for the info, Nononsense. I always took it for granted that any Mauser action with a thumb cut was military. Every Mauser I've owned, outside of one, had that feature, but it was a newer, commercial Whitworth. 0 -
I like the way they fit too, but I'm one of those folks. Getting a good cheek weld right on top of the bolt, just doesn't appeal to me. Mauser designed the 98 bolt shroud with a "gas shield" for good reason, and I've seen it tested several times.But most folks just can't get over having the action that close to their face.0 -
Agree with Bob. How could you ever get a good cheek weld to the comb and scope to shoot it good??????? 0 -
Actually, we built one while I was apprenticing using a Winchester pre-'64 M70 and an in house designed bullpup stock.
It was chambered for (believe it or not) the .300 H&H and loaded with 198 grain custom Match bullets from a local bullet maker.
We used the first match to break in the barrel and get a feel for the scope position and the rifle in general. The second match we placed third and then we won the third match. These were all shot at Ben Avery just north of Phoenix on their long range benchrest range at 1,000 yards. A couple of the shooters were familiar with the design but most looked at it shaking their heads when they saw the face/cheek positioning.
The most difficult part of the design is the extended trigger bar used to release the trigger. Think XP-100 but longer...
Best.0 -
toad67 wrote:Agree with Bob. How could you ever get a good cheek weld to the comb and scope to shoot it good???????
getting a "good" cheek weld is NOT what is wanted in precision shooting.
Think about the extreme way of shooting......you would look thru the scope with the gun mounted solid, aim it, then step away and just lightly pull the trigger with only a finger touching the gun.
If fact, in most ultra high end target shooting, we tried everything NOT to touch the rifle more
than needed.
We used a thick padded hand mitt on on left hand so as not to get our blood pulse affecting the gun. A thick shoulder pad was used not only for recoil but to stop heart beats from moving the buttstock. Deep right hand palm reliefs helped put the hand in a straight line with the trigger for better feel and less side to side movements.
Note pic, all points of body contact with gun is pushed to the smallest amount possible.0 -
I have frequently resembled that picture...
I spent a good chunk of my youth geared up and ensconced within the articles and accessories associated with high level elite shooting sports...
Look at the traditional German or Swiss or Austrian martini lever actuated pivoting block (Peabody dropping block derivative / patent infringement clone) sporting and target rifles...
The Henry and hammerili and Peabody and Glaser and stutzer and Providence tool company and creed more and what cheer variants that focus on the elaborate mid or long range target platforms and butt heel target sight mount 32" super heavy bbl 1200 yd special prone guns...
The elaborate hooks and rests and swells and sights and double set adjustable triggers height and cant and point of balance and tension and LOP adjustments - vernier aperture insert eye cup advanced interchangeable multi configuration ultra match target sight sets with spirit levels and colored / tinted neutral magnification translucent inserts...
Think today's most refined and tested ultra match target rifle platforms sent through the way back machine and now heavily influenced by steam punk...
Heck I have a rimfire target rifle with a factory installed electronic bedding system and a pellet firing match air gun from Daisy with a laminated reinforced Italian avanti stock and a bbl from lomar Walther and Olympic match target shoot inspired iron sights and an integral digital display that indicates air pressure for each shot...
If you can conceive it any ideas have all ready been applied to target shooting rifles and pistols...
The bullpup design concept has been around for ever and will keep being tested and tried out again in the future...
Mike0 -
No bids to date...
You know the scope alone is worth the cost of the starting bid...
I like it - very much so.
Mike0 -
mrmike08075 wrote:No bids to date...
You know the scope alone is worth the cost of the starting bid...
I like it - very much so.
Mike
+599
What i don't see on that scope is the recoil spring that returns it to battery in those sliding outside adjustment mounts.
Now many shooters did remove the springs and manually pushed the scope back into the set eye relief location. It may have been one of those guys???0 -
My 20X unertl and my 12x Lyman both retain their original rings...
And both are mounted on .22 rf smallbore rifles...
Mike0
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