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Legalized pot shops can't use banks

remingtonoaks
I had no idea of this, but illegalized by the state pot shoss can't use Banks for any of their transactions because it's still illegal federally and the banks can be charged with money laundering. Interesting

https://amp-economist-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/amp.economist.com/the-economist-explains/2018/01/22/why-marijuana-retailers-cant-use-banks?amp_js_v=a2&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQCCAE=#referrer=https://www.google.com&amp_tf=From %1$s&ampshare=https://www.economist.com/the-economist-explains/2018/01/22/why-marijuana-retailers-cant-use-banks
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Comments

27 comments

Date Votes
  • mac10
    cash bussiness :twisted: no taxes :lol:
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  • 11b6r
    Sorry to pop yer bubble- but-
    1. 27 of the 78 state licensed cannabis dispensaries in the Denver area take Mastercard/ Visa- and
    2. there is a 19.65% TAX on all sales.
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  • sxsnuf
    Heard a couple months ago that Orygone is owed 10s of millions in taxes from the legal sale of marijuana.
    All cash business and impossible for the revenoor to track.
    As if that profession wouldn't put a smile on your face anyway, doing it tax free would be grounds for breaking into a happy dance!
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  • babun

    Call BS on that.
    Any cash business or anyone can use a bank for deposits/withdraws/ loans.
    Money laundering or other areas of the Rico Act is for Hiding moneies not claimed on your income taxes.
    I had a cash only antiques sales business and had a bank account under that name for 15
    years. Claimed income , paid taxes, made money. Legal.
    Something being legal or illegal in one state doesn't make it taboo in the federal bank's eyes.
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  • nmyers
    Babun, you are right, banks can accept deposits from "cash" businesses. But, states DO NOT have the right to make marijuana legal, or to decriminalize it, based on the US Constitution, article 6, which clearly states that federal law is supreme over state law.

    Actually, it's based on FDA regulations, which state the marijuana is a Schedule 1 drug & is therefore, possession is illegal. Period. But, any president could call the head of the FDA into his office, & asking him to reconsider that status. No need for Congress to do anything, regulations don't require that.

    In the mean time, prudent bureaucrats will have to tell banks that they should not do business with customers who are violating federal law. Federal prisons are better than state prisons, but the food is still bad.

    Neal
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  • babun
    nmyers wrote:
    Babun, you are right, banks can accept deposits from "cash" businesses. But, states DO NOT have the right to make marijuana legal, or to decriminalize it, based on the US Constitution, article 6, which clearly states that federal law is supreme over state law.

    Actually, it's based on FDA regulations, which state the marijuana is a Schedule 1 drug & is therefore, possession is illegal. Period. But, any president could call the head of the FDA into his office, & asking him to reconsider that status. No need for Congress to do anything, regulations don't require that.

    In the mean time, prudent bureaucrats will have to tell banks that they should not do business with customers who are violating federal law. Federal prisons are better than state prisons, but the food is still bad.

    Neal
    That's interesting.
    So by all rights, A federal agent can stand out side a "legal" pot store and arrest anyone coming out with pot?
    Don't get me wrong, I'm against the sale of it anywhere.
    I could see myself boarding a plane in Colorado,and watching as the pilot finishes smoking a joint before he climbs the steps. :shock:
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  • Warbirds
    Seems like we gun owners in the free states could learn something from the pot smokers and sellers.
    The states have chosen to tell the federal government to shove it and rightly so.

    It is a step in the right direction for liberty as far as I can tell.

    [/quote]
    That's interesting.
    So by all rights, A federal agent can stand out side a "legal" pot store and arrest anyone coming out with pot?
    Don't get me wrong, I'm against the sale of it anywhere.
    I could see myself boarding a plane in Colorado,and watching as the pilot finishes smoking a joint before he climbs the steps. :shock:
    [/quote]
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  • mrmike08075
    I would like to see the federal government take the marijuana license registry and enter it into the NICS check computers and begin denying firearms purchases...

    The problem however is no longer about morality or legality or cultural norms - it's about money and tax revenue and on that basis alone it's become a dead issue - they will talk about funding pre-K and road maintenance and computers for school kids and it's all over...

    Once again the issue is decided by politicians selling out and lining pockets.

    Mike
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  • Don McManus
    mrmike08075 wrote:
    I would like to see the federal government take the marijuana license registry and enter it into the NICS check computers and begin denying firearms purchases...

    The problem however is no longer about morality or legality or cultural norms - it's about money and tax revenue and on that basis alone it's become a dead issue - they will talk about funding pre-K and road maintenance and computers for school kids and it's all over...

    Once again the issue is decided by politicians selling out and lining pockets.

    Mike

    Why?

    I will never understand why people give a rat's ass about what someone does when it does not bother anyone else.



    If someone creates a problem, deal with that person and that problem.

    Denying or restricting the vast majority of responsible users because of the actions of a few? Sound familiar?

    The anti-liberty left wants to control parts of our lives and the anti-liberty right wants to control other parts of our lives.

    Both pretend it is because of moral values and public safety.

    The argument doesn't hold water in the 2nd Amendment Liberty debate and it doesn't hold water in the Federal overreach regarding marijuana.
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  • remingtonoaks
    babun wrote:
    nmyers wrote:
    Babun, you are right, banks can accept deposits from "cash" businesses. But, states DO NOT have the right to make marijuana legal, or to decriminalize it, based on the US Constitution, article 6, which clearly states that federal law is supreme over state law.

    Actually, it's based on FDA regulations, which state the marijuana is a Schedule 1 drug & is therefore, possession is illegal. Period. But, any president could call the head of the FDA into his office, & asking him to reconsider that status. No need for Congress to do anything, regulations don't require that.

    In the mean time, prudent bureaucrats will have to tell banks that they should not do business with customers who are violating federal law. Federal prisons are better than state prisons, but the food is still bad.

    Neal
    That's interesting.
    So by all rights, A federal agent can stand out side a "legal" pot store and arrest anyone coming out with pot?
    Don't get me wrong, I'm against the sale of it anywhere.
    I could see myself boarding a plane in Colorado,and watching as the pilot finishes smoking a joint before he climbs the steps. :shock:

    Yes, a federal agent can stand outside a legal pot shop an arrest anybody coming out with pot. But through the Obama Administration the federal government has said that they will not do so, giving individual states an opportunity to Legalize It within the state.... but it is still illegal on the federal level, so yes again. The Federal Government can arrest not only somebody coming out of the store, they can arrest the store owner for trafficking drugs
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  • mrmike08075
    It's about choice.

    If you choose to violate federal law - and you leave a paper trail (applying for a state pot license / registering to purchase pot) even through a state sponsored or endorsed system you will yield benefits and consequences...

    By choosing to violate federal drug / controlled substance laws and reap what you perceive to be the benefits from marijuana / thc you open yourself up to losing or endangering other benefits of being a law abiding citizen...

    If you choose to apply for / register for one of these state issued cards and make a forever forensic record of your violation of federal law there may be consequences - you may limit your employment opportunities and may have lost your eligibility to purchase firearms...

    I am curious what happens when one is on parole from prison and then seeks to apply for one of these cards - if a condition of parole is being drug free and passing random drug tests from a PO...

    Would the issue bare weight in child custody cases or adoption applications or foreign travel / employment visas...

    How about active duty reserve or guard military service - can you apply for one of these cards at the state level - what's the federal military policy - can you endanger your career???

    If you choose to enter into a situation or circumstance were the legal issues are uncertain and unsettled you open yourself up to potential problems...

    Drug free school zone and you teach or work on school grounds and you get the card...

    It's a mess.

    Mike
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  • nmyers
    I think that the crackdown on marijuana users has already started.

    Over the past year, I have seen several reports in the press involving people NICS-denied because they truthfully answered the question about drug use. I don't know if ATF has issued instructions to dealers. I would expect formerly free states to give a list of their medical marijuana card holders without hesitation; if they can't wipe out drug abuse, they will do their best to knock out firearms ownership.

    I have visited medical marijuana production & sales facilities. Kind of remind me of Walter White's new lab. Growing that stuff is really expensive. They can't use pesticides. When they opened, stores in my area were charging $800 for an "eighth", which they tell me is expensive. I expect those who aren't rich to continue to buy the twig filled junk from Mexico, rather than pay for medical pot.

    For now, there is no test for pot "intoxication". Your pilot can just suck on some mints before he boards the plane. Same thing for the tweekers down the street, who will continue to drive their cars. I know folks with chronic illness & pain who might benefit from medical marijuana, I worry that they will have to give up their God given rights, as well as their money.
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  • remingtonoaks
    nmyers wrote:
    I think that the crackdown on marijuana users has already started.

    Over the past year, I have seen several reports in the press involving people NICS-denied because they truthfully answered the question about drug use. I don't know if ATF has issued instructions to dealers. I would expect formerly free states to give a list of their medical marijuana card holders without hesitation; if they can't wipe out drug abuse, they will do their best to knock out firearms ownership.

    I have visited medical marijuana production & sales facilities. Kind of remind me of Walter White's new lab. Growing that stuff is really expensive. They can't use pesticides. When they opened, stores in my area were charging $800 for an "eighth", which they tell me is expensive. I expect those who aren't rich to continue to buy the twig filled junk from Mexico, rather than pay for medical pot.

    For now, there is no test for pot "intoxication". Your pilot can just suck on some mints before he boards the plane. Same thing for the tweekers down the street, who will continue to drive their cars. I know folks with chronic illness & pain who might benefit from medical marijuana, I worry that they will have to give up their God given rights, as well as their money.

    Actually there is a test for marijuana but it doesn't show the intoxication level. They have test kits for just such a thing
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  • mag00
    babun wrote:
    nmyers wrote:
    Babun, you are right, banks can accept deposits from "cash" businesses. But, states DO NOT have the right to make marijuana legal, or to decriminalize it, based on the US Constitution, article 6, which clearly states that federal law is supreme over state law.

    Actually, it's based on FDA regulations, which state the marijuana is a Schedule 1 drug & is therefore, possession is illegal. Period. But, any president could call the head of the FDA into his office, & asking him to reconsider that status. No need for Congress to do anything, regulations don't require that.

    In the mean time, prudent bureaucrats will have to tell banks that they should not do business with customers who are violating federal law. Federal prisons are better than state prisons, but the food is still bad.

    Neal
    That's interesting.
    So by all rights, A federal agent can stand out side a "legal" pot store and arrest anyone coming out with pot?
    Don't get me wrong, I'm against the sale of it anywhere.
    I could see myself boarding a plane in Colorado,and watching as the pilot finishes smoking a joint before he climbs the steps. :shock:

    Yes, a federal agent can stand outside a legal pot shop an arrest anybody coming out with pot. But through the Obama Administration the federal government has said that they will not do so, giving individual states an opportunity to Legalize It within the state.... but it is still illegal on the federal level, so yes again. The Federal Government can arrest not only somebody coming out of the store, they can arrest the store owner for trafficking drugs

    Legal pot store? Is that right next to the Legal Slave Trade store?

    But then again, some county in New Mexico declared themselves a 2nd amendment sanctuary and vowed to arrest federal agents who tried to arrest or otherwise inhibit the 2nd. But I don't think pot is protected under the Constitution.
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  • mrmike08075
    Apropos of nothing...

    The legal slave trade in the united states did not end with the emancipation proclamation but remained active on Indian reservations and areas that had not yet obtained territorial status...

    Another oversight.

    Mike
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  • Don McManus
    mrmike08075 wrote:
    It's about choice.

    If you choose to violate federal law - and you leave a paper trail (applying for a state pot license / registering to purchase pot) even through a state sponsored or endorsed system you will yield benefits and consequences...

    By choosing to violate federal drug / controlled substance laws and reap what you perceive to be the benefits from marijuana / thc you open yourself up to losing or endangering other benefits of being a law abiding citizen...

    If you choose to apply for / register for one of these state issued cards and make a forever forensic record of your violation of federal law there may be consequences - you may limit your employment opportunities and may have lost your eligibility to purchase firearms...

    I am curious what happens when one is on parole from prison and then seeks to apply for one of these cards - if a condition of parole is being drug free and passing random drug tests from a PO...

    Would the issue bare weight in child custody cases or adoption applications or foreign travel / employment visas...

    How about active duty reserve or guard military service - can you apply for one of these cards at the state level - what's the federal military policy - can you endanger your career???

    If you choose to enter into a situation or circumstance were the legal issues are uncertain and unsettled you open yourself up to potential problems...

    Drug free school zone and you teach or work on school grounds and you get the card...

    It's a mess.

    Mike

    You stated "I would like to see the federal government take the marijuana license registry and enter it into the NICS check computers and begin denying firearms purchases..."

    The question is why would you like to see this?

    I would like to see Congress pass a bill that decriminalizes marijuana at the Federal level, and have Trump follow through on his statement that he would sign it, thus turning the decision of legalization over to the individual states where it belongs.

    There is nothing wrong, IMO, for an employer, public or private, in making policy regarding drug use by their employees. Employment is a choice. Being a citizen of this country is for most of us, not a choice, and the Federal Government should not be in the business of creating criminals or suspending rights of the those engaged in locally legal activities.
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  • WearyTraveler
    Don McManus wrote:

    I would like to see Congress pass a bill that decriminalizes marijuana at the Federal level, and have Trump follow through on his statement that he would sign it, thus turning the decision of legalization over to the individual states where it belongs.

    There is nothing wrong, IMO, for an employer, public or private, in making policy regarding drug use by their employees. Employment is a choice. Being a citizen of this country is for most of us, not a choice, and the Federal Government should not be in the business of creating criminals or suspending rights of the those engaged in locally legal activities.

    Agreed. I'd love to see it decriminalized federally. Let the states decide. Or just decriminalize it period.

    I think that the young nowadays do not need anything additional to make them lethargic or lazy. Has to be an age limit and I'd suggest something in the 40s... I sat in a few local HS trade school classes. Those kids were lazy, unmotivated and shall we say, not the sharpest knives in the drawer. Allowing them to partake would really make them worthless to work...
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  • remingtonoaks
    mag00 wrote:
    babun wrote:

    That's interesting.
    So by all rights, A federal agent can stand out side a "legal" pot store and arrest anyone coming out with pot?
    Don't get me wrong, I'm against the sale of it anywhere.
    I could see myself boarding a plane in Colorado,and watching as the pilot finishes smoking a joint before he climbs the steps. :shock:

    Yes, a federal agent can stand outside a legal pot shop an arrest anybody coming out with pot. But through the Obama Administration the federal government has said that they will not do so, giving individual states an opportunity to Legalize It within the state.... but it is still illegal on the federal level, so yes again. The Federal Government can arrest not only somebody coming out of the store, they can arrest the store owner for trafficking drugs

    Legal pot store? Is that right next to the Legal Slave Trade store?

    But then again, some county in New Mexico declared themselves a 2nd amendment sanctuary and vowed to arrest federal agents who tried to arrest or otherwise inhibit the 2nd. But I don't think pot is protected under the Constitution.

    What have you been smoking? I didn't say it was covered by the Second Amendment. Maybe you ought to step away from the reefer
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  • mag00
    mag00 wrote:


    Yes, a federal agent can stand outside a legal pot shop an arrest anybody coming out with pot. But through the Obama Administration the federal government has said that they will not do so, giving individual states an opportunity to Legalize It within the state.... but it is still illegal on the federal level, so yes again. The Federal Government can arrest not only somebody coming out of the store, they can arrest the store owner for trafficking drugs

    Legal pot store? Is that right next to the Legal Slave Trade store?

    But then again, some county in New Mexico declared themselves a 2nd amendment sanctuary and vowed to arrest federal agents who tried to arrest or otherwise inhibit the 2nd. But I don't think pot is protected under the Constitution.

    What have you been smoking? I didn't say it was covered by the Second Amendment. Maybe you ought to step away from the reefer
    Did I say you said it was covered?

    Put the vampire mirror down. ;)
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  • 11b6r
    ReF: Pilot bogarting that fatty- try to carry weed thru airport screening in Denver, yer busted. Federal folk there, not state.

    Guard/ Active military? Yeah- that dog don't hunt. Not allowed. At all. Some military reservations, if you are a civilian and have a drug conviction in the past 3 years- you're not going beyond the gate- they WILL turn you around.

    Maryland and DC have de-criminalized possession of small quantities- which is NOT legalization. Our company had operations in both, and had a drug testing program. There is no lab test for the degree of impairment from weed, but there are field tests- and there damn sure are lab tests that WILL show if you have been partaking.
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  • mrmike08075
    I am not trying to piss is anyone's cornflakes - I claim no moral superiority...

    I am not out to lecture or teach or testify or preach or proclaim or instruct or issue orders or lay down the law or adjudicate...

    I would like to play devil's advocate and explore the issue - weigh the pros and cons - hear your point of view contrasting or not - I would like to believe that I can make you think - and that I can honestly examine your statements and think myself about their impact on my point of view.

    I don't wish to vilify or shun or silence or run off anybody - and my thread content contributions are not always an endorsement or dismissal of a point of view or body of thought - in many cases espousing my opinion or being "right" is not important information - it's the exchange of ideas and provoking of thought that is primary.

    And within certain limitations that's what you provide for me - something ineffable that has been lost or prohibited in other media or forums (facebook and twitter and instagram and and YouTube and halls of learning and press outlets - etc...)

    What you are not is politically correct or blindly monolithic or intracabley partisan - simply regurgitating propaganda by rote reflex.

    I value that - I learn not simply thoughts but how to think - and I prefer to believe that a of you value my input and opinion and possibly learn from me - that I might lead you to thought.

    And on really bad days sometimes what you provide here is one of the few things I have left to keep me sane and moving forward.

    I mean except for flat earthers or scientologists or nambla or mormons or pit bull apologists or moon landing deniers or PLO members or NASCAR fans or glock owners...

    Mike
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  • 11b6r
    Mike- Slavery in the States (not counting territories, possessions, native lands, etc) was not ended until 1868. 14th Amendment. What was overlooked with the Emancipation Proclamation- it freed slaves in areas that were AT THAT TIME IN REBELLION against the US.
    First- it had no authority over areas in rebellion. Because they were, well..... rebelling.
    Second, there were NORTHERN slave states- like MD, NJ, NY. Since they were not in rebellion the proclamation had no legal effect on them. Likewise, DC.
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  • shilowar
    nmyers wrote:
    I think that the crackdown on marijuana users has already started.

    Over the past year, I have seen several reports in the press involving people NICS-denied because they truthfully answered the question about drug use. I don't know if ATF has issued instructions to dealers. I would expect formerly free states to give a list of their medical marijuana card holders without hesitation; if they can't wipe out drug abuse, they will do their best to knock out firearms ownership.

    I have visited medical marijuana production & sales facilities. Kind of remind me of Walter White's new lab. Growing that stuff is really expensive. They can't use pesticides. When they opened, stores in my area were charging $800 for an "eighth", which they tell me is expensive. I expect those who aren't rich to continue to buy the twig filled junk from Mexico, rather than pay for medical pot.

    For now, there is no test for pot "intoxication". Your pilot can just suck on some mints before he boards the plane. Same thing for the tweekers down the street, who will continue to drive their cars. I know folks with chronic illness & pain who might benefit from medical marijuana, I worry that they will have to give up their God given rights, as well as their money.

    Actually there is a test for marijuana but it doesn't show the intoxication level. They have test kits for just such a thing
    We routinely conduct blood draws/tests for DUID, which includes levels of THC in the blood. There are established therapeutic levels like any other medication. The toxicologist will come to court and testify to the level in the blood and the impairment it causes.
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  • medic07
    The following is just my humble opinion.

    I have heard others say (not just on this board) that anyone who uses marijuana in one of those states should lose their rights to gun ownership as they must answer truthfully to question 11e on the ATF 4473 (11e: Are you an unlawful user of, or addicted to, marijuana or any depressant, stimulant, narcotic drug, or any other controlled substance?).

    On the federal level, use of marijuana is still unlawful. So they would need to answer YES to that question.

    However if we are to be honest there are lots of people that would need to answer YES to that question as well:
    - Alcoholics are addicted to a depressant
    - Many pain management patients using Schedule 2 drugs tend to become addicted
    - People on Schedule 2 drugs for ADD/ADHD can become easily addicted

    Be very careful about wanting the states/businesses to start releasing their list of marijuana purchasers to the NICS system. Once that ball starts to roll, I can see some "well meaning" politician then pushing for pharmacies to start providing a list of those taking Schedule 2 drugs to NICS. After all its "for the good of society".

    I am in favor of the philosophy of punishing the person if they do something wrong and not punishing all of them.
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  • Don McManus
    medic07 wrote:
    The following is just my humble opinion.

    I have heard others say (not just on this board) that anyone who uses marijuana in one of those states should lose their rights to gun ownership as they must answer truthfully to question 11e on the ATF 4473 (11e: Are you an unlawful user of, or addicted to, marijuana or any depressant, stimulant, narcotic drug, or any other controlled substance?).

    On the federal level, use of marijuana is still unlawful. So they would need to answer YES to that question.

    However if we are to be honest there are lots of people that would need to answer YES to that question as well:
    - Alcoholics are addicted to a depressant
    - Many pain management patients using Schedule 2 drugs tend to become addicted
    - People on Schedule 2 drugs for ADD/ADHD can become easily addicted

    Be very careful about wanting the states/businesses to start releasing their list of marijuana purchasers to the NICS system. Once that ball starts to roll, I can see some "well meaning" politician then pushing for pharmacies to start providing a list of those taking Schedule 2 drugs to NICS. After all its "for the good of society".

    I am in favor of the philosophy of punishing the person if they do something wrong and not punishing all of them.

    Agree fully.

    The 'addicted to' statement would probably apply to many thousands of legitimate users of opiates.

    There are no doubt 100s of prescribed drugs that some well-meaning politician will want to use as an exclusion for firearms purchase.
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  • Smitty500mag
    babun wrote:
    Don't get me wrong, I'm against the sale of it anywhere.
    I could see myself boarding a plane in Colorado,and watching as the pilot finishes smoking a joint before he climbs the steps. :shock:

    I'd rather he had smoked a joint as spending several hours in the airport lounge/bar and getting falling down drunk before he got on the plane.
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  • WearyTraveler
    Smitty500mag wrote:
    babun wrote:
    Don't get me wrong, I'm against the sale of it anywhere.
    I could see myself boarding a plane in Colorado,and watching as the pilot finishes smoking a joint before he climbs the steps. :shock:

    I'd rather he had smoked a joint as spending several hours in the airport lounge/bar and getting falling down drunk before he got on the plane.
    Both would worry me since both would impair he reaction times.

    However, I'd love to see pot legalized (with previously stated restrictions). I've seen too many bar fights and pretty much never seen a pot fueled fight.

    And remember, as Hank Jr said: "hangovers hurt more than they used to."
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