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Trump GROUNDS Boeing 737 Max but

serf
Sure looks bad for Boeing to have to ground this model but They had a bad crash in Texas recently with another model Boeing jet and plunged head first into marshland! Maybe bad software in both models and the lawyers are going to have a field day!

serf

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6805505/Trump-grounds-Boeing-737-Max-planes-effectively-immediately-crash.html

- but Boeing says it asked FAA to do it first?

Trump made the decision following conversations with Transportation Secretary Elaine Chao, Boeing CEO Dennis Muilenburg and the Federal Aviation Administration he said, after 'new information' and 'physical evidence' emerged on tragic incidents involving the planes.

'They are all in agreement with the action,' Trump announced. 'Planes that are in the air will be grounded, if they're the 737 Max, will be grounded upon landing at the destination.'
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Comments

11 comments

Date Votes
  • select-fire
    Maybe he can give a few Democrats free rides on them. Just sayin' Too Soon ?
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  • WearyTraveler
    How come we're not hearing a sihtstorm about how Trump is hurting Boeing or the airline industry? Dem Dems must be sleeping...
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  • gruntled2
    From what I have read the simple solution is to avoid using the autopilot at low altitudes until they get a fix. All the accidents & reported problems that I have heard of have occurred on climb out. There were two reports of nose down problems occurring as soon as the auto pilot was engaged & ending as soon as it was disengaged.
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  • SW0320
    gruntled2 wrote:
    From what I have read the simple solution is to avoid using the autopilot at low altitudes until they get a fix. All the accidents & reported problems that I have heard of have occurred on climb out. There were two reports of nose down problems occurring as soon as the auto pilot was engaged & ending as soon as it was disengaged.

    I guess I do not understand why a plane is on autopilot when taking off. Isn't that like putting your car on cruise control when you are pulling out into traffic?

    I think that is our problem today. Airplanes and Ships, think Navy accidents, are made to be controlled by people not machines.
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  • gruntled2
    The two reports I read said they took off under the pilot's control & then turned on the auto pilot for the climb out. As soon as the auto pilot was engaged they had a severe nose down attitude which they quickly & safely corrected by turning off the auto pilot.
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  • shilowar
    select-fire wrote:
    Maybe he can give a few Democrats free rides on them. Just sayin' Too Soon ?


    Nancy Pelosi has a rep for abusing government flights for personal use I say her position as Speaker it would be fitting to assign her a personal 737 Max.
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  • WearyTraveler
    gruntled2 wrote:
    The two reports I read said they took off under the pilot's control & then turned on the auto pilot for the climb out. As soon as the auto pilot was engaged they had a severe nose down attitude which they quickly & safely corrected by turning off the auto pilot.

    This is just another symptom of the world we've become. We are becoming more and more dependent on technology to take over tasks. This, in turn is leaving us more and more vulnerable to flaws or hacks in technology. Some kid sitting in his parents basement is going to shut down the grid or take a jet for a ride.

    Yesterday, FB, Google and some other sites were "acting wonky." It's only a matter of time.
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  • spasmcreek
    better trumps grounds em than them grounding themselves !!
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  • wpageabc
    Boeing better get a S/W patch on thier software for the auto pilot VERY soon. There is much at stake in Boeing taking a hit like this. Two major crashes in a short time frame with similar situations. Not good for anyone.,,
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  • nmyers
    I don't claim to be an expert, but I think I see the problem here.

    The basic problem is likely to be a faulty airspeed indicator (on the right side of the front of the plane. It erroneously sends a message to the MCAS computer, which determines that the plane is about to stall. (Stall means that the plane will drop like a rock if it's not flying fast enough.) At this point, you would hope that the computer would announce to the crew "STALL! STALL!", & they would increase the airspeed. In the MAX version, the MCAS not only increases engine speed, but points the nose down, since a dive will also increases airspeed. At this point, we find out who understood that it was important to read the owners manual in the glove box.

    US pilots generally generally have been trained to deal with this situation, & shut off the MCAS switch; this restores control to the pilots. Foreign pilots, who may not have been given the Boeing handout, may have a problem; they wrestle with the stick, trying to pull the nose up. Airline pilots throughout the world are expected to communicate in English, but some ESOL pilots are not exactly fluent. Boeing sold the MAX as not requiring training if you already can fly other versions of the 737, so maybe some airlines took them at their word & sent their pilots out without explaining how the MAX works differently.

    Boeing stock took a hit because there is no easy way out for them. Of course, they will have to make a big payout to everyone on board both planes that crashed. But, it will take too long to fix the hardware & software, so the only immediate solution is a campaign to educate MAX pilots throughout the world, maybe bringing them to the US for training. They should have done this immediately after the Lion Air crash.

    Neal
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  • bpost
    An aerodynamic stall can happen at any speed if the angle of attack is too great for lift to be maintained. It is called a high speed stall. The MCAS system is designed to push the nose down in the event the angle of attack is too great. The issue is the pilot handbook and training does not tell pilots how to correct for the MCAS error or failure. The throttles on the 737 MAX are automatic. They will push forward to increase power while lowering the nose to reduce the angle of attack and increase airspeed.

    The interesting thing about an aerodynamic stall is the wing may be going fast enough to create lift but the boundary layer of air separates from the wing due to the angle of attack to the relative wind. The air become turbulent (in small planes you can actually feel the shudder created by the turbulent air). The wing then stops creating lift and that is called a stall, the plane stops flying even if it is going 500 MPH. the only way to recover controlled flight is to reduce the angle so the wing can again fly. The MCAS system is supposed to make take offs automatic and flight hands free. Once the heading is entered along with a flight level the plane will fly to the altitude assigned and go to where it is programed.

    Unfortunately Boeing did not include the critical data pilots need to turn off the MCAS system in the event of a failure. They did not provide the needed training saying the 737 type certificate qualified pilot could just jump in and go. That is a awesome selling tool but the complaints about the lack of handbook data, the nonexistent system training and the assumption this would not happen in 10 to the power of 9 was wrong.

    Too bad so many died to show the flaws. Boeing will get it fixed and it will be a revolution for the airline industry. Me, I would fly on one tomorrow with nary a worry in the US system. Overseas, not a snowballs chance in hell I would get on one.
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