Info about first-year Winchester M1903 carbine

BoxesOfLiberty

May 11, 2012 11:16

I'm hoping someone can provide me with some additional information about my Winchester Model 1903 .22 auto.

What I have appears to be a first-year production model. It has no safety and the serial number is 3406.

From what I can find online there were two models, a standard one with a plain (uncheckered) straight stock and forend, and a deluxe model with a checkered forend and checkered pistol grip stock. Mine fits neither description. It has a plain forend and a checkered straight stock.

Might this stock configuration have been an original option? Do you think this was someone's attempt to make a deluxe model from a standard model?

The rifle is fitted with a Lyman-type flip-up peep sight mounted on the tang. I have seen pictures of other 1903s with a similar sights, but I've also seen pictures of them without a tang sight. Was this a standard option? Does this one appear to be original?





Also, I'm curious about value. Any idea what this might be worth?

The wood is pretty rough with dents and scratches, though really no worse than I would expect on a 100-year-old gun. The barrel retains most of its finish. The finish on moving parts / receiver is pretty thin and has turned brown where it is intact as you can see in the pictures.

I have seen a much newer 1903 at a local gun show in similar condition, but I think the dealer who had it was grossly inflating his prices so I really have no idea.

Any information you can add about this rifle, the flip-up sight, the checkered straight stock, or value is greatly appreciated.

I'd also love links to any sights with good explanations of how old firearms are graded ... I've heard them described as "50% finish" but I'm not sure what that really looks like, and terms like "good", "very good", etc. seem awfully vague.

Thanks for your help!

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  Bert H.

  May 11, 2012 12:44

  Hello Dennis,
  
  You are correct that it is a first year production rifle (July 1903).
  
  With very rare exception, Winchester always checkered both stocks. Only if it was specifically special ordered would it have been made in the configuration your rifle has. The good news is that the Cody Firearms Museum (CFM) research office has the original factory warehouse ledger records for your rifle, and for a fee, they can provide you with a factory letter that will provide you with the date of manufacture, and what the as built configuration of the the rifle was when it was originally sold.
  
  Personally, I do not believe that it is original with just a checkered butt stock. The Lyman No. 1 tang sight was a special order option.
  
  What is the discolored section on the upper forward part of the receiver frame? The overall condition is "Fair" (approximately 25-30%). The Lyman tang sight is worth at least $125 by itself, and the rifle is <$200. It has very little value as a "shooter" due to the special .22 rim fire ammo that it requires (22 Win Auto), which has been obselete since the 1950s.

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  BoxesOfLiberty

  May 11, 2012 13:53

  Thanks for the info Bert!
  
  I'm not sure about the discolored area you are seeing. I'm attaching a picture with better detail of the receiver from a few angles. Maybe this will help answer the question.
  
  
  
  It's a shame about the ammo being so hard to find. This is a handy little gun with a slick action and a crisp trigger, and seeing as it's not a museum piece I would love to take it out and shoot it.
  
  Thanks for the tip about the Cody Museum, too. As a strange coincidence ... I was just talking to a friend just this morning who was telling me I should visit the BBHC! He drove there from Salt Lake City and was quite impressed. Its a little longer drive for me (from San Jose, CA), but its on my list of places to visit if I find myself in the area. I haven't decided whether to keep the rifle or not, but if I do, I think I will definitely get one of those letters.
  
  As a side note, is there any place where I can find pictures of what "fair", "good", etc. look like (or different percentages of finish for that matter)? A sort of reference guide to grading with examples would be really useful.
  
  Thanks Again !

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  duckhunter

  May 11, 2012 14:46

  Take a look st the "Blue Book of Gun values" by S.P. Fjestad. He has some great pics of condition.

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  BoxesOfLiberty

  May 11, 2012 16:57

  quote:Originally posted by duckhunter
  Take a look st the "Blue Book of Gun values" by S.P. Fjestad. He has some great pics of condition.
  
  
  Thanks for the tip.
  
  I found a copy of "The Official Gun Digest Book of Guns & Prices 2010" at my local library, but it didn't have any example pictures. They don't have the Blue Book of Gun values, but that might be a worthy addition to my own book collection.

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  deerhide

  May 11, 2012 19:48

  There is a chance that the forend was replaced, sometime in the past, either with a factory plain one or by a good stockmaker....................

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  Herschel

  May 12, 2012 05:36

  The tang sights were available through normal commercial channels and could be installed by a gunsmith. Without factory documentation that the sight came from Winchester on the rifle I would assume it was an aftermarket addition.

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  Brad Weber

  May 15, 2012 02:31

  I believe that tang sight is a Lyman #2 and not a #1.

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  peabo

  May 15, 2012 06:06

  The ammo is out there and can be found at gun shows although pricey.
  I have these left over after I sold my '03.
  
  
  
  
  Thanks---Peabo

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