Ideas for a penetrating solution Please
Here's my problem - I bought a M1816 Harpers Ferry musket that has been converted to percussion using the Belgium/cone in barrel method. Try as I might, I cannot get that nipple out. I've been using mild heat and aerokroil applied two or three times a day for eleven days now and it won't budge. The shoulders of the nipple are worn so a regular nipple wrench slips. I've been using a small pair of vise grips that grasp that nipple very well but it still won't move.
So to the question - I need a penetrating solution to stand the breech of the musket in - one that I could just leave it in for a couple of weeks or so. I realize that Kroil would be ideal but it is not sold locally, and I've read of other homemade mixtures that are reported to work almost as well. But I can't recall the ingredients. Acetone and automatic transmission fluid come to mind but I'm not sure if those were the ingredients and I have no idea on proportions if those are correct.
So help would be appreciated. As I said, I would like to stand the barrel up past the nipple in the solution in a metal coffee can or a tall glass jar, seal the top with a makeshift seal, maybe using aluminum foil and duct tape or something and just let it work for a week or two. Any ideas?
Edit - the drill it out and re-tap would be difficult - that nipple is made of hard stuff. I bought an easy-out and the appropriate drillbit and that bit won't touch the metal in that nipple.
So to the question - I need a penetrating solution to stand the breech of the musket in - one that I could just leave it in for a couple of weeks or so. I realize that Kroil would be ideal but it is not sold locally, and I've read of other homemade mixtures that are reported to work almost as well. But I can't recall the ingredients. Acetone and automatic transmission fluid come to mind but I'm not sure if those were the ingredients and I have no idea on proportions if those are correct.
So help would be appreciated. As I said, I would like to stand the barrel up past the nipple in the solution in a metal coffee can or a tall glass jar, seal the top with a makeshift seal, maybe using aluminum foil and duct tape or something and just let it work for a week or two. Any ideas?
Edit - the drill it out and re-tap would be difficult - that nipple is made of hard stuff. I bought an easy-out and the appropriate drillbit and that bit won't touch the metal in that nipple.
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Probably chemically welded. Cut it off, drill it out, retap. That way you start out with brand new threads. 0 -
I favor the drill it out and re-tap. 0 -
Acetone and transmission fluid 50:50. But you have to have it in a closed container or the acetone will volatilize. Just as well use straight transmission fluid in an open can.
My FLG showed me an 1860 Colt that had spent a year in WD40, it was freeing up nicely. I think a week or a month in a better solution would be enough.0 -
Here is a pic of what you should have...
I would "spot-anneal" the nipple by using a large steel bolt drilled to just fit over the nipple. then heat the bolt to red hot temp, allowing the nipple to drain away the heat and get soft.
Then drill and tap.
Or spot anneal by using this idea also..
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/general_metalwork_discussion/2826-drilling_hardended_steel_-_update.html
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I would drill a hole just large enough to go over the nipple. Through a piece of 1/16 steel sheet metal. The sheet metal has to be large enough in area to protect the breech of the barrel. If a Propane torch with a needle tip, doesn't put out enough heat to get the nipple "red". Your going to have to use a acetylene torch.
EDIT #1,
Aerokroil is Kroil that comes in a pressurized spray container.
The standard Kroil in liquid form. Is available through any number of net sources. The shipping charges are exorbitant though.0 -
If it is rusted steel, Evap-O-Rest is a chelating process meaning it chemically reacts with rust putting it into the solution AND has NO EFFECT ON THE STEEL!
Vinegar and Coke are acids which will attack the metal. Of course to a much lesser degree than phosphoric acid that is used to treat steel for auto body refinishing.
Anything that is oil based is simply a lubricant where the issue is getting it to penetrate fully into the rusted zone. Unfortunately, it does not break down the rust. What it does do is allow more "micro movement" when you apply a force or torque which hopefully is enough to start fracturing the rust crystals. If you can get the amount of movement, you can cycle the load and break the part free. If it is truly frozen, this wont work.
The Mmlasses method is really weird because it works through bacteria growth that occurs when it goes rancid. People who use it always put it in a "field far from the house" since it is so stinky. I believe the bacteria "chemically eat" the oxygen out of the iron oxide.
Regarding frozen engines - especially big diesels in bulldozers, etc. the vinegar method is the Go To method by a number of people. It is strong enough an acid to dissolve the rust, and weak enough to not damage the cylinders. Of course, a little acid attack on the cylinders and rings is usually acceptable.0 -
quote:Originally posted by firstharmonic
I've been using mild heat...
Define "mild"?
Use a propane torch to heat it. Let it cool. Heat again. Let it cool again. Heat again; cool again. On the forth heating, when it's hot, try to remove it.0 -
quote:Originally posted by competentone
quote:Originally posted by firstharmonic
I've been using mild heat...
"Define "mild"?
Use a propane torch to heat it. Let it cool. Heat again. Let it cool again. Heat again; cool again. On the forth heating, when it's hot, try to remove it."
Pretty much what I've been doing. I've been heating the barrel around the nipple more than the nipple itself. And I've been spraying the aerokroil on while it's hot.0 -
Had similar problem with muzzleloader shotgun. Stuck tooth pick in the hole in the nipple and poured WD40 in the barrel and let it soak for a week or so. used easy out in hole in nipple. Came right out. The solution is patience. Mild heat between soaking will help. Do not get in a hurry. If all else fails, drill it out then. 0 -
I've had fantastic luck with kroil. Even some pipe fittings I knew would not break free, but tried it anyway, sure enough saved me a lot of time. 0 -
An oldtimer I knew recommended a mix of kerosene and turpentine. If possible soak the seized item at least overnight. Then tap it with a small hammer, just tap it enough to cause a vibration, paint on the mix and keep tapping. Tap steady for awhile, try to turn it or maybe tap once in awhile over a few days..................I never tried it, never had to. I usually used an acidic penetrating fluid.
Jim0 -
quote:Originally posted by firstharmonic
I've been heating the barrel around the nipple more than the nipple itself. And I've been spraying the aerokroil on while it's hot.
Don't go easy on that nipple with the heat!
As "corrosion" is explained by others above, you're trying to break the "chemical weld" that has taken place. The expansion and contraction of heating and cooling will do that.
I'm not sure there is a problem of "lack of oil" getting to the problem area. The heat will usually do the work, but for "penetrating" oils on rust (when it's not bad enough to need heat) I've found PB Blaster works well.0 -
I have had good luck removing broken bolts that are sticking up above the surface at least a 1/4 to 3/8 of a inch.Penetrating oil,heat and repeated light tapping.light tapping,not pounding.Tap,tap,tap,tap,tap and so on.
EvilDr2350 -
Don't know if this will help but nipples will come out, in some guns, by grinding a proper slot in a 1/4 drive socket then using a ratchet. It worked for me on my .36 cal. 0
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