Nib Guns
I have recently been seeing a lot of listings for Winchester dating in the 2o's, 30's and 40's that are new in the box. I have of course seen some on a rare bases but as of late it has been real common. Is there a way one could tell if in fact these are true NIB new old stock guns with the original box. To be real honest with you I am not sure I would even know what the old boxes and how they were marked even looked. Most of the boxes I am seeing look pretty new to me.
I have been around a few years but most of the people I knew said the hell with the box, lets go hunting.
I have been around a few years but most of the people I knew said the hell with the box, lets go hunting.
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old guys dying off family selling gramps collection 0 -
Fake - counterfeit - made to deceive period reproduction colt and Winchester boxes have flooded the market
Many dishonest folk have taken advantage - many good folk have been cheated.
Mike0 -
Burt one of our mods. Has referenced this, in a post awhile back. 99.9%, are fakes as Mike notes.
Don't waste your money. Unless you can have a hands-on with a pro. To insure both the rifle and box are factory original.0 -
quote:Originally posted by rufe-snow
Burt one of our mods. Has referenced this, in a post awhile back. 99.9%, are fakes as Mike notes.
Don't waste your money. Unless you can have a hands-on with a pro. To insure both the rifle and box are factory original.
The one Rufe refers to is in Calif, changes seller name and location that's usually around Sonora/Jamestown location. Fakes the guns, the boxes and crates. If he half a brain, he could be good at it.0 -
In addition to the boxes are the hang tags and manuals and shipping or store labels and other ephemera designed to deceive...
A "genuine reproduction" (yes I know it's an oxymoron - but you understand my point) is deliberately made with a noticeable error or discrepancy that makes it subtlety but distinctly different from the real McCoy (the most commonly accepted method is a spelling or phrasing error in printed words - like the companies / manufacturers address)
It's okay to want or have or make or sell a reproduction accessory item for display purposes - but fake aging or antiquing an item with no perceivable method of differentiation for deceitfulness and profit is frowned upon and illegal
Their is a notable - well known seller on certain familier popular online auction sites who does this scam regularly with colt boxes and ephemera mostly - who has branched out into other brands now
I have reproduction hang tags and manuals on display myself - but I do not misrepresent them
Mitchell's Mauser's got jammed up pretty good over sales techniques and ad language whose wording and marketing led buyers who did not read or understand the deceitful phrasing to represent Mauser rifles built after the end of WWII as wartime production pieces
A lot of fakes were coming out of India and Pakistan - now several south American countries
Caveat emptor
Mike0 -
I have been collecting Winchesters for some 40 years and until the last 10 years are so it was just good old boys and small gun shows that you rarely see the really collectable guns. Then comes along the internet and I started seeing guns I could only read about before.
Made some really bad mistakes but it was for the most part my mistake for jumping the gun without having the knowledge I really needed.
Over the years I have felt I could trust the larger Brokers but now I find some really could care less if they are dealing with a crook or not. Not a very warm fuzzy feeling.
Anybody that has ever had any dealings with Bert knows he will call a spade a spade. I have gone to him many times only to find I was about to make a mistake. As far as I am concerned if a Broker is put on notice they are dealing with a crook, no matter how many guns he sells they are doing are just as much a crook as he is.0 -
It's the same with sniper rifles - you can build reproduction M1 type C and D snipers from reproduction parts - British enfield "t" types - several of the German Mauser models...
Build from scratch or finish off and modify a parts gun or stripped model - make tons of money if your an amoral awhole...
Oldest trick in the book I am afraid - confederate states of America stuff is common - they made more Nazi gear and imperial Japanese gear after the war than during it...
Star model B pistols with waffenampts burned many - WWI US trench knives - war (civil) swords - blue Max medals...
I hope that you do not get cheated in the future - good luck and good hunting...
Mike0 -
quote:Originally posted by rufe-snow
Burt one of our mods. Has referenced this, in a post awhile back. 99.9%, are fakes as Mike notes.
Don't waste your money. Unless you can have a hands-on with a pro. To insure both the rifle and box are factory original.
Bert's earlier post was regarding a Winchester sold by a friend. It then showed up on the auction side with a box serial numbered to the gun, a hang tag and maybe some other stuff, none of which was with the gun when his friend sold it. Clearly a fraudulent representation. If it seems too good to be true .......0 -
There is no need to worry about the originality of the box and papers if you buy guns that have experienced some history instead of sitting on a shelf. The original buyer tossed out all that useless stuff and went hunting. 0
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