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Definition of "Antique" & Whether FFL Is Required

CarlGeorge
[I'm new to the GunBroker forums. I hope this isn't in the wrong place. It seemed like the best option.]

I've got some old (early 1900s, late 1800s) revolver pistols. All of them use modern cartridges - such as .22 rimfires.

As I'm getting ready to list them on GunBroker I've seen others like them and the sellers have listed some as "No FFL Required" (due to the "Antique" status).

My reading of the definition of an Antique is such that, while these guns meet the *time of manufacture* requirement, they do not meet the ammunition requirement - as it specifically calls out rimfire and centerfire ammunition.

It sure seems to me guns as I describe would require an FFL-involved transfer. Am I missing something?

Thanks!

CG
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Comments

11 comments

Date Votes
  • remingtonoaks
    For your reading pleasure. ATF rules governing curios and antiques. Some of yours may qualify as curio, others could be antiques depending on when it was made

    https://www.atf.gov/firearms/curios-relics
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  • 11b6r
    Read the definition of Antique Firearm. IF it was made prior to 1899, it does not matter what ammo it uses, For a REPLICA of a true antique, (replica having been made in modern times) the REPLICA would be considered an antique IF:
    such replica is not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition, or
    uses rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition which is no longer manufactured in the United States and which is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade.


    Example- 1860s manufacture Lemat 9mm pinfire revolver- antique

    Modern replica of a Lemat, still in 9mm pinfire- antique

    Modern replica of a Lemat in .38 Special- NOT an antique.


    Guns made to use loose powder and ball (think muzzleloader) such as caplock, flintlock, matchlock- antique, no matter when made. If readily convertible to regular ammo, and not made before 1899, not an antique.
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  • mogley98
    Welcome to Gun Broker now about that Gun Giveaway :)
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  • mark christian
    quote:Originally posted by CarlGeorge
    [I'm new to the GunBroker forums. I hope this isn't in the wrong place. It seemed like the best option.]

    I've got some old (early 1900s, late 1800s) revolver pistols. All of them use modern cartridges - such as .22 rimfires.



    Welcome CG. You've already received some fine advice on the definition of antique, but I'll also chime in. Early 1900 is not an antique; a Curio and Relic, but not antique. As for the late 1800's, be sure that you identify the production date correctly. One common mistake is using the firearm's patent number, which is usually stamped on the barrel. The time span between the patent date and the production date may be years, or even decades apart. Good luck with the sales and when you list your guns feel free to give them a shameless plug in this forum. Best, Mark
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  • jimdeere
    Not to confuse the subject, but is there any logic behind designating the year 1898 as the cut off date?
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  • Spider7115
    quote:Originally posted by jimdeere
    Not to confuse the subject, but is there any logic behind designating the year 1898 as the cut off date?

    Probably due to the development of smokeless powder around that time. Maybe "antique" applied to blackpowder firearms.
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  • Don McManus
    quote:Originally posted by Spider7115
    quote:Originally posted by jimdeere
    Not to confuse the subject, but is there any logic behind designating the year 1898 as the cut off date?

    Probably due to the development of smokeless powder around that time. Maybe "antique" applied to blackpowder firearms.


    I've always thought that, Spider, along with the growing popularity of magazine fed rifles like the Winchester 1895, but have never found anything that confirms it.

    Have a few pre 1899 Krags that are antique, but fire readily available 30 Govt (30-40) cartridges. Have been told on more than one occasion that they are not antiques by people that should know better.
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  • Locust Fork
    When selling antiques you may run into buyers who are not in the US. Some may qualify to ship to them, but there may be added forms you are required to include with the item when you ship it to their country. Its not terribly complicated to figure it all out, but unless its a pricey item its not worth the hassle. Make sure you check what qualifies in their area if you do think about shipping to another country.
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  • allen griggs
    I think they picked 1898 because that was the year of the invention of the '98 Mauser, a true turning point in firearms manufacture.

    I have two Swedish Mausers made in 1898. Just as good as a German Mauser but they are antiques!
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  • asop
    Interesting question here. And interesting answers.
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  • CarlGeorge
    Thanks all for the comments and guidance. It's apparent I need to do some more detailed reading re the definitions.

    I just wanted to be sure where I might be steering into issues - as this is the first time I've sold online.

    Thanks again!

    CG
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