Barzillia I AGREE WITH YOU.
In this Nation you are not forced to choose from the lesser of two to twenty evils. If your conscience could not see voting for Trump or Hillary then you did the correct thing by not voting for POTUS. You did your duty as you saw fit.
I do not vote for unopposed candidates. No sense in swelling their heads any further. In Ohio they are counted as under-votes that lets the unopposed know not every one is a sheep.
With that said; do you support the additional border security of a wall, fence and other methods to stop the illegals at the border?
I do not vote for unopposed candidates. No sense in swelling their heads any further. In Ohio they are counted as under-votes that lets the unopposed know not every one is a sheep.
With that said; do you support the additional border security of a wall, fence and other methods to stop the illegals at the border?
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I do too. If your conscience will not let you vote then don't.
But on the flip side you really cannot complain because you don't have a dog in the fight.
What about the (L) ticket? Johnson and Weld were not too bad, they had some good ideas and Johnson is a fiscal conservative/small Gov guy.0 -
Don't see myself sitting it out. If you did two years ago it was a vote for a "L" (Left, Libtard, Loonie, globaList).
Can't imagine what the U.S. would be right now. Open borders? No ICE, more socialil_ist, IRAN agreement in effect, North Korea more missles, OH, don't forget the U.N. immigration pact the U.S. would have signed.
Plus the U.S wouldn't have a populist/nationalist President. LIKE a lot of other nations,, Brazil being the latest, especially return to the family and family values.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1AIBUS0EWE&t=86s0 -
The major parties depend on, even relish, people telling others they have to choose one of their candidates or they need to STFU. That why they can ostracize anyone that doesn't go along with that thinking and get plenty of sheep to back them up and drive home the point.
I do not care what anyone else thinks. If you evaluate the candidates on the ballot and you make an informed decision and none of them warrants your vote, then that in itself is a vote. Not voting in one, or more than one, race on the ballot does not exclude you from the process. It does not mean your opinion doesn't count. Anyone that wants to degrade me if I choose to not vote in a race can KMA. If they can't understand a person does not have to vote for a major party's unqualified candidate then they are the one with the problem.0 -
"NONE OF THE ABOVE" should be the last "person" on
every ballot for every office.
[xx(]0 -
They are not different in one main way they lie to be elected.! Trump has put us 2 trillion dollars into more debt at 22 trillion and counting!Of course Hillary would have made 2.5 trillion,500 million more with the social welfare of course!
The cows have long left the barn so closing the doors now means nothing other than who got the free money either the rich or the poor! The Middle Class gets nothing either way!
The Republicans got their tax cut and The Super rich thanks you for Lobbyist and Super-pacs being allowed in our Democracy with freedom of Choice.
The border wall is meaningless unless they deport 30 million Hispanics before building it! It's nothing but smoke and mirrors.
serf
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/us-national-debt-2-trillion-donald-trump-presidency-deficit-treasury-congressional-budget-office-a8710546.html
When he was campaigning for the White House, Mr Trump said he believed he could make the US debt free within eight years.
?I think I could do it fairly quickly,? he told The Washington Post.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/27/us/politics/trump-tax-cuts-jobs-act.html
Walmart has so far saved at least $1.6 billion for the first three quarters of 2018, compared with what it would have paid under its previous effective rate. Bank of America has saved at least $2.4 billion over the same period. AT&T has saved $2.2 billion; Verizon has saved $1.75 billion and Apple has saved about $4.5 billion. In welcoming those windfalls, companies frequently promised to help workers.0 -
quote:Originally posted by serf
They are not different in one main way they lie to be elected.! Trump has put us 2 trillion dollars into more debt at 22 trillion and counting!Of course Hillary would have made 2.5 trillion,500 million more with the social welfare of course!
The cows have long left the barn so closing the doors now means nothing other than who got the free money either the rich or the poor! The Middle Class gets nothing either way!
The Republicans got their tax cut and The Super rich thanks you for Lobbyist and Super-pacs being allowed in our Democracy with freedom of Choice.
The border wall is meaningless unless they deport 30 million Hispanics before building it! It's nothing but smoke and mirrors.
serf
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/us-national-debt-2-trillion-donald-trump-presidency-deficit-treasury-congressional-budget-office-a8710546.html
When he was campaigning for the White House, Mr Trump said he believed he could make the US debt free within eight years.
?I think I could do it fairly quickly,? he told The Washington Post.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/27/us/politics/trump-tax-cuts-jobs-act.html
Walmart has so far saved at least $1.6 billion for the first three quarters of 2018, compared with what it would have paid under its previous effective rate. Bank of America has saved at least $2.4 billion over the same period. AT&T has saved $2.2 billion; Verizon has saved $1.75 billion and Apple has saved about $4.5 billion. In welcoming those windfalls, companies frequently promised to help workers.
Serf,
SPENDING: Trump did not and can not spend the money of the US Treasury. Congress can and does, every dime and then some. He can't even pay the electric bill for the White House, that is Congresses job.
Blame Congress for all spending because that is where spending truly originates. He can't fix spending unless Congress does its job. Congress, as we all know, is as useless as teats on a boar hog when it comes to any sort of fiscal responsibility. By not passing a real budget it continues to duck and hide like the cowards they are. Ryan was worse than useless; the (R)'s ran the show and did not do anything. The senate is a cesspool; the (R)'s could not pass gas with out some (D) support and all they got was total resistance. That is why nothing gets done.
TAX CUTS: Read and learn some.
https://www.americanlibertyreport.com/articles/companies-return-billions-to-us-economy-due-to-recent-tax-cut/0 -
quote:Originally posted by bpost
quote:Originally posted by serf
They are not different in one main way they lie to be elected.! Trump has put us 2 trillion dollars into more debt at 22 trillion and counting!Of course Hillary would have made 2.5 trillion,500 million more with the social welfare of course!
The cows have long left the barn so closing the doors now means nothing other than who got the free money either the rich or the poor! The Middle Class gets nothing either way!
The Republicans got their tax cut and The Super rich thanks you for Lobbyist and Super-pacs being allowed in our Democracy with freedom of Choice.
The border wall is meaningless unless they deport 30 million Hispanics before building it! It's nothing but smoke and mirrors.
serf
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/us-national-debt-2-trillion-donald-trump-presidency-deficit-treasury-congressional-budget-office-a8710546.html
When he was campaigning for the White House, Mr Trump said he believed he could make the US debt free within eight years.
?I think I could do it fairly quickly,? he told The Washington Post.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/27/us/politics/trump-tax-cuts-jobs-act.html
Walmart has so far saved at least $1.6 billion for the first three quarters of 2018, compared with what it would have paid under its previous effective rate. Bank of America has saved at least $2.4 billion over the same period. AT&T has saved $2.2 billion; Verizon has saved $1.75 billion and Apple has saved about $4.5 billion. In welcoming those windfalls, companies frequently promised to help workers.
Serf,
SPENDING: Trump did not and can not spend the money of the US Treasury. Congress can and does, every dime and then some. He can't even pay the electric bill for the White House, that is Congresses job.
Blame Congress for all spending because that is where spending truly originates. He can't fix spending unless Congress does its job. Congress, as we all know, is as useless as teats on a boar hog when it comes to any sort of fiscal responsibility. By not passing a real budget it continues to duck and hide like the cowards they are. Ryan was worse than useless; the (R)'s ran the show and did not do anything. The senate is a cesspool; the (R)'s could not pass gas with out some (D) support and all they got was total resistance. That is why nothing gets done.
TAX CUTS: Read and learn some.
https://www.americanlibertyreport.com/articles/companies-return-billions-to-us-economy-due-to-recent-tax-cut/
How we elect our representatives with lobbyist and Super-Pacs dumping campaign flush funds on Congress is the cause of Americans getting what we get. And where does Apple now assemble their I Phones since China is pulling the plug?
Try India and tell me it ain't more the same!
Smoke and Mirrors and with illegal immigration being rampant it's not going to get any better here for the middle-class blue collar worker here.
serf
https://www.quora.com/Will-Apple-decide-to-manufacture-their-iPhone-in-the-United-States
Even if an entire supply chain could be built again in the U.S. to make a branded Smart Phone, the cost of this product would never be competitive with a product from China or India. In fact Apple has no desire to make a cost competitive iPhone as it knows it cannot even compete in the arena today, without cannibalizing their own hefty profit margins. In the 1990?s, large American Branded Computer Companies like IBM realized they could not sell cost competitive Personal Computer?s anymore. Recently, I was speaking to a group of people all of whom were in their 20?s. When I got more into detail about the history of the P.C. industry, none of them knew that IBM once made Personal Computers. I really was taken aback by this, as I realized just how much times have changed. For the entire concept of making products in one country vanished long ago. President Trump may as well wish for the return of the IBM PC, but it will not happen. The world economy has changed, and India and China are the world?s two fastest growing large economies.
But in country with high quality of life like US this workforce price will be several times higher, and cost of establishing new factories will also be quite considerable. So it?s not going happen - no matter what incentives Trump and Co will try to invent.0 -
What does the above have to do with your life? Let me fill you in; NOTHING. Your life is what you make of it.
It is not Apple's fault America has such high Corporate taxes, property taxes, payroll taxes, inventory taxes,unemployment taxes and the added burden of OSHA plus a plethora of other regulation heavy bureaucracies.0 -
quote:Originally posted by bpost
What does the above have to do with your life? Let me fill you in; NOTHING. Your life is what you make of it.
It is not Apple's fault America has such high Corporate taxes, property taxes, payroll taxes, inventory taxes,unemployment taxes and the added burden of OSHA plus a plethora of other regulation heavy bureaucracies.
Our human existence is precarious at best and governments have taken the most from them in war and peace in order to prosper over them.
Maybe we can get through the bottleneck and gain an infinite source of energy along with A.I. machines to manufacture all our needs and desires.
But until then we have a dark horizon of uncertainty even the super-rich are preparing for. I wonder if they know something we don't?
serf
https://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/amazing-doomsday-bunkers-of-the-super-rich/
The Oppidum provides its residents with every asset necessary to continue their lives and maintain their business interests for up to 10 years. This conference room is one of those assets.
Most details about this shelter are kept secret in a password-protected online portal that only the wealthiest are permitted to access.0 -
quote:Originally posted by Barzillia
quote:Originally posted by bpost
In this Nation you are not forced to choose from the lesser of two to twenty evils. If your conscience could not see voting for Trump or Hillary then you did the correct thing by not voting for POTUS. You did your duty as you saw fit.
I do not vote for unopposed candidates. No sense in swelling their heads any further. In Ohio they are counted as under-votes that lets the unopposed know not every one is a sheep.
With that said; do you support the additional border security of a wall, fence and other methods to stop the illegals at the border?
https://forums.GunBroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=672063
While that thread was posted partly in jest, at the same time it was serious.
I listened to an interesting discussion about walls and border security that included the rationale that in high density population areas where the sheer numbers of people involved do not allow for a controlled entry with lesser means, significant physical barriers are the only rational solution.
In areas where there are lesser numbers of people potentially crossing, lesser barriers are obviously appropriate.
Whether mounted patrols, drones, electronic monitoring, or whatever technology is appropriate, the response should always be proportional to the actual need.
If you control the more commonly used choke points, that leaves the more difficult terrain and the more desperate persons seeking entry across a dangerous desert region.
Mal-intent would be presumed in such crossings.
Some sort of fencing would not be unrealistic, even if just a plain old 5 strand barbed wire fence, with appropriate warnings.
I would have no problem with the defense of the border in that kind of situation, with up to and including lethal means, as I previously posted.
This ?I care more than you do? nonsense by POTUS leads nowhere good.
Get real, and get going, and then address the greatest source of illegal immigration to this country.
It's not evading the Southern border.
Barzillia, a clarification; none of what I posted was in jest. I believe exactly as I said.0 -
quote:Originally posted by Barzillia
quote:Originally posted by bpost
In this Nation you are not forced to choose from the lesser of two to twenty evils. If your conscience could not see voting for Trump or Hillary then you did the correct thing by not voting for POTUS. You did your duty as you saw fit.
I do not vote for unopposed candidates. No sense in swelling their heads any further. In Ohio they are counted as under-votes that lets the unopposed know not every one is a sheep.
With that said; do you support the additional border security of a wall, fence and other methods to stop the illegals at the border?
https://forums.GunBroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=672063
While that thread was posted partly in jest, at the same time it was serious.
I listened to an interesting discussion about walls and border security that included the rationale that in high density population areas where the sheer numbers of people involved do not allow for a controlled entry with lesser means, significant physical barriers are the only rational solution.
In areas where there are lesser numbers of people potentially crossing, lesser barriers are obviously appropriate.
Whether mounted patrols, drones, electronic monitoring, or whatever technology is appropriate, the response should always be proportional to the actual need.
If you control the more commonly used choke points, that leaves the more difficult terrain and the more desperate persons seeking entry across a dangerous desert region.
Mal-intent would be presumed in such crossings.
Some sort of fencing would not be unrealistic, even if just a plain old 5 strand barbed wire fence, with appropriate warnings.
I would have no problem with the defense of the border in that kind of situation, with up to and including lethal means, as I previously posted.
This ?I care more than you do? nonsense by POTUS leads nowhere good.
Get real, and get going, and then address the greatest source of illegal immigration to this country.
It's not evading the Southern border.
While it is true that the greatest source of illegal immigration into this county is by the over-staying of legal entrants, as you point out the entrants of the most concern are those who enter illegally. As stated by the current administration, it is this uncontrolled entry that causes the humanitarian issues and allows for drug and criminal entry.
An imposing barrier in all practical areas will discourage some of this, but will funnel the rest into smaller and smaller entry points which will lead to more efficient monitoring and control.
It is not an 'I care more than they do' approach, it is two opposing philosophies deliberately talking past each other.
Illegal entry is a security and humanitarian problem. Maybe not a crisis, but the death of two children at the border recently, and the deaths of thousands due to the influx of fentanyl and other poisons justifies at least the consideration of calling it a crisis.
The building of a wall will pay for itself over time with the resultant reduction of people and equipment necessary to enforce border security. It will also reduce the amount of criminal entry into this country. It does not address legal entry and criminal over-staying, but these are two very different issues that should not be conflated for the purposes of using one to discount the severity of the other.
Edit: Oh, and I agree with the OP. There is nothing un-American or unpatriotic in not voting for someone you wish not be your President.
Neither of the major parties presented a remotely acceptable candidate for POTUS in 2016, and neither of them received my vote. Anyone who believes that makes me less of an American does not understand what American means.0 -
Just to clarify, I STILL think, that if you did not vote for either candidate, you have abdicated you right to complain.
I can see not voting for anyone in the Primaries, but once it comes down to one, or the other - who do you wish to see in charge? It is not hypothetical at that point. One or the other will be in office, choose.
Whom do you desire?
(Again) If neither, why do you now complain?
(And) Just to further clarify, No One needed my permission to choose to NOT to Vote. (That is on you.) Use it or not, your choice.0 -
quote:Originally posted by 84Bravo1
Just to clarify, I STILL think, that if you did not vote for either candidate, you have abdicated you right to complain.
I can see not voting for anyone in the Primaries, but once it comes down to one, or the other - who do you wish to see in charge? It is not hypothetical at that point. One or the other will be in office, choose.
Whom do you desire?
(Again) If neither, why do you now complain?
(And) Just to further clarify, No One needed my permission to choose to NOT to Vote. (That is on you.) Use it or not, your choice.
If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice, and that is to accept who the majority choose.0
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