my house was shot
since last winter i have had a broken window in my bedroom, outer pane only. i had been planning on replacing the windows anyway and this project finally came to the top of the list. was going to measure to get replacement window and thats when i discovered my house had been shot. looking at the broken window i noticed what looked like a buckshot laying against the inner pane. yep thats what it was, 00. on further inspection i notice where other shot had hit the house. my house is about 70 yards from the road with several large oak trees in between. deer feed under the oaks in the fall, isuppose someone took a shot. some people are real idiots and there is just no way to protect yourself from all of them.
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daam rite there is...SHOOT BACK.... 0 -
I've seen the same thing a couple of times: 00 buck unable to penetrate the second pane of a 2-pane window and from much closer range than you mentioned. I've never understood where buckshot got such a reputation of being a powerful killer. Yes I do, Hollywood. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by truthful
I've seen the same thing a couple of times: 00 buck unable to penetrate the second pane of a 2-pane window and from much closer range than you mentioned. I've never understood where buckshot got such a reputation of being a powerful killer. Yes I do, Hollywood.
https://www.theboxotruth.com/the-box-o-truth-3-the-shotgun-meets-the-box-o-truth/0 -
Jealous husband?[:D][;)]
Seriously though, I'm glad everybody's okay...0 -
Interesting link Mr. Perfect, on the drywall and the shotgun etc.
However the author is punching way way above his weight on the subject of birdshot. He is not stupid he is just ignorant:
"Birdshot as a Defense Load
I have had a lot of questions, summed up as follows: How effective is birdshot (#4, #6, #8, etc.) as a defense load?
We have done tests with various birdshot loads. Birdshot penetrated through two pieces of drywall (representing one wall) and was stopped in the paper on the front of the second wall. The problem with birdshot is that it does not penetrate enough to be effective as a defense round. Birdshot is designed to bring down little birds.
A policeman told of seeing a guy shot at close range with a load of 12 gauge birdshot, and was not even knocked down. He was still walking around when the EMTs got there. It was an ugly, shallow wound, but did not STOP the guy. And that is what we want? to STOP the bad guy from whatever he is doing. To do this, you must have a load that will reach the vitals of the bad guy. Birdshot will not do this.
In fact, tests have shown that even #4 Buckshot lacks the necessary penetration to reach the vital organs. Only 0 Buck, 00 Buck, and 000 Buck penetrate enough to reach the vital organs.
Unless you expect to be attacked by little birds, do not use birdshot. Use 00 Buck. It will do the job."
I have "been there and done that" when it comes to birdshot injuries. I worked as a paremedic for many years in rural Georgia.
I worked 14 close range birdshot injuries, torso shots, and EVERY ONE was fatal. I am talking about inside-the-house range, 20 feet or less.
Most of the patients were Dead Right There and we didn't even waste our time working the code.
I did have one guy, a big 27 year old black guy about 6-4, worked all day cutting pine trees with the chain saw. Built like Superman.
See, a young healthy person is harder to kill than an old, or sick person.
Anyway, this guy had been brought to our hospital from the neighboring county, caught a load of #8s right in the chest.
We had to transport him over to the big hospital in Macon Georgia.
It was my turn to attend. This guy was conscious and alert, I talked to him for the entire 45 minute ride.
Said his girlfriend got mad at him and let him have it with the 12 gauge.
I thought this guy would spoil my record but I called the hospital the next day and no, he died four hours after we left him off, kidney failure.
At close range there is nothing more lethal than birdshot.
Now, I never saw anybody hit with buckshot. I have killed a lot of hogs and deer with patched round ball and it is very effective. So, I would imagine that buckshot would be just as good as birdshot and maybe better.
But don't try to tell me that birdshot is not an effective house defense load.
This guy has a story of a cop, who says he worked a call, where a guy caught birdshot in the chest and it didn't even knock him down.
That was probably some long range birdshot. Birdshot at 15 feet leaves a 1 1/2 inch "rathole." This guy probably got shot at 30 yards. At that range, no, number 8 shot is not going to kill.
ps As we have discussed this matter on this forum, some of the guys said that the bird shot would not penetrate a leather coat. Well that was an interesting point, most all of my corpses patients were shot in domestic situations, they were wearing a t shirt.
So, some years ago I did a test which I posted on this forum complete with pics. I got a little 20 gauge loaded with #8 birdshot.
I didn't have a leather coat that I wanted to destroy but I had a pair of high top leather work boots. The sole was worn out but the ankles were in good shape. That leather is at least as heavy as a coat.
I set the boot down and I had the muzzle 15 feet away. I fired, and the shot completely penetrated the boot, both sides. Pretty impressive but I was not surprised, given my experience as a medic.
Then, to simulate human bone, I stuck a pine 1x4 in the second boot.
Human bone is not the toughest material on earth and a 1x4 is a pretty good replica of the ankle bone.
I fired again from 15 feet, and the shot blew right through the board! It did not penetrate the far side leather.
If that had been a man standing there wearing that boot, it would have "blown his foot off." In other words the docs would have been up late at night trying to save that ankle and probably would have amputated.0 -
You need to quit messing with them married women. [:)][:)]
I found a spent 9mm bullet last year on the back deck that cracked the outer pane of the living room window. My back deck and living room faces BLM land. I figure it must have skipped over the hill. I've picked up hundreds of old shell casings around the house that have been here from when it was still open land.0 -
"At close range there is nothing more lethal than birdshot."
I won't go quite that far BUT I certainly know for fact just how deadly a load of #4 or #6 shot can be.
I saw a deer that had been shot with lead #4 at about 15-16 yards. A whole handful of shot penetrated to the far side stopping under the skin. Many pellets had penetrated rib bones. The deer was DRT.
Another memorable and surprising outcome of birdshot was the skull of a mature bovine that the owner had put down due to a broken leg. The skull had been literally shattered by a 16 gauge load of lead #6 @ 10'.0 -
I spent the summer of 1973 in the wilderness of British Columbia.
I was hanging out with a big game guide named Larry Erickson, near Manson Creek.
So Larry had a half dozen rifles hanging on the wall of his log cabin way out in the wilderness. Larry told us "Don't mess with those guns all are loaded."
And he had an Enfield, a couple of Savage lever guns in .308, and he had a 12 gauge pump. I asked him, what was the shotgun for?
He said that was his grizzly gun. Now, this is a guy who has guided hunts and him, or his hunters have killed dozens of grizzly.
Larry told me that he had the gun loaded with number 4 birdshot and he said nothing at close range is more lethal.
He said that, a griz had killed his favorite sled dog, a husky. He said that grizzly would come back that fall when they had moose meat hanging in the cooler, and he was going out into the yard and shoot that griz with that 12 gauge pump. It was personal to him he wanted to kill the bear up close.
I know that may sound crazy to us guys, most of us have never seen a griz, I never have, but this guy was a professional griz killer and that was what he was going to do.
So, ten years later when I was a paramedic it was interesting to see how bird shot performed on humans, looked to me like Larry knew what he was talking about.0 -
I knew an old gunsmith that said he knew a man who worked as a forest ranger up in the north country back in the 1920's. The man's wife had died and he just wanted to be left alone. Anyhow, he was way back in the boonies and had to back pack his groceries & such in. He had 2 guns, a Broomhandle Mauser and a .12 gauge sawed off shot gun. He used the broomhandle to pot meat for his table and the sawed off shotgun on bears. If I remember right, there was a bounty on the bears. The bears would come around his cabin and he'd wait until the bear got on his porch. Then he would open the door, knowing the bear would stand up and look at him, and shoot the bear in the throat. Point blank range with bird shot. The bears never even got a 'howdy do', just boom. One shot is all it took. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by allen griggs
Interesting link Mr. Perfect, on the drywall and the shotgun etc.
However the author is punching way way above his weight on the subject of birdshot. He is not stupid he is just ignorant:
"Birdshot as a Defense Load
I have had a lot of questions, summed up as follows: How effective is birdshot (#4, #6, #8, etc.) as a defense load?
We have done tests with various birdshot loads. Birdshot penetrated through two pieces of drywall (representing one wall) and was stopped in the paper on the front of the second wall. The problem with birdshot is that it does not penetrate enough to be effective as a defense round. Birdshot is designed to bring down little birds.
A policeman told of seeing a guy shot at close range with a load of 12 gauge birdshot, and was not even knocked down. He was still walking around when the EMTs got there. It was an ugly, shallow wound, but did not STOP the guy. And that is what we want? to STOP the bad guy from whatever he is doing. To do this, you must have a load that will reach the vitals of the bad guy. Birdshot will not do this.
In fact, tests have shown that even #4 Buckshot lacks the necessary penetration to reach the vital organs. Only 0 Buck, 00 Buck, and 000 Buck penetrate enough to reach the vital organs.
Unless you expect to be attacked by little birds, do not use birdshot. Use 00 Buck. It will do the job."
I have "been there and done that" when it comes to birdshot injuries. I worked as a paremedic for many years in rural Georgia.
I worked 14 close range birdshot injuries, torso shots, and EVERY ONE was fatal. I am talking about inside-the-house range, 20 feet or less.
Most of the patients were Dead Right There and we didn't even waste our time working the code.
I did have one guy, a big 27 year old black guy about 6-4, worked all day cutting pine trees with the chain saw. Built like Superman.
See, a young healthy person is harder to kill than an old, or sick person.
Anyway, this guy had been brought to our hospital from the neighboring county, caught a load of #8s right in the chest.
We had to transport him over to the big hospital in Macon Georgia.
It was my turn to attend. This guy was conscious and alert, I talked to him for the entire 45 minute ride.
Said his girlfriend got mad at him and let him have it with the 12 gauge.
I thought this guy would spoil my record but I called the hospital the next day and no, he died four hours after we left him off, kidney failure.
At close range there is nothing more lethal than birdshot.
Now, I never saw anybody hit with buckshot. I have killed a lot of hogs and deer with patched round ball and it is very effective. So, I would imagine that buckshot would be just as good as birdshot and maybe better.
But don't try to tell me that birdshot is not an effective house defense load.
This guy has a story of a cop, who says he worked a call, where a guy caught birdshot in the chest and it didn't even knock him down.
That was probably some long range birdshot. Birdshot at 15 feet leaves a 1 1/2 inch "rathole." This guy probably got shot at 30 yards. At that range, no, number 8 shot is not going to kill.
ps As we have discussed this matter on this forum, some of the guys said that the bird shot would not penetrate a leather coat. Well that was an interesting point, most all of my corpses patients were shot in domestic situations, they were wearing a t shirt.
So, some years ago I did a test which I posted on this forum complete with pics. I got a little 20 gauge loaded with #8 birdshot.
I didn't have a leather coat that I wanted to destroy but I had a pair of high top leather work boots. The sole was worn out but the ankles were in good shape. That leather is at least as heavy as a coat.
I set the boot down and I had the muzzle 15 feet away. I fired, and the shot completely penetrated the boot, both sides. Pretty impressive but I was not surprised, given my experience as a medic.
Then, to simulate human bone, I stuck a pine 1x4 in the second boot.
Human bone is not the toughest material on earth and a 1x4 is a pretty good replica of the ankle bone.
I fired again from 15 feet, and the shot blew right through the board! It did not penetrate the far side leather.
If that had been a man standing there wearing that boot, it would have "blown his foot off." In other words the docs would have been up late at night trying to save that ankle and probably would have amputated.
Wait, you were a paramedic? Interesting. Since 00 buck is available and is probably a better penetrator, I'll stick with that.0 -
OO buck is truly bad news at home defense/police shooting distances, 20 yards or less. I used to know an Alaskan brown bear guide who told me that at 20 feet or less it was deadly to Mr. Brown Bear! But at 70 yards, your better off with a 22 LR. 0
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