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Sorry for beating a dead horse but

JamesRK
it has to be done.

This guy shoots a cast iron frying pan with a 9mm, .40 and a .45. The .40 & .45 did pretty much as I expected but I gained some respect for the 9mm. Enough for me to consider rethinking my opinion of the .380.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkY4GEhHyek
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Comments

25 comments

Date Votes
  • grumpygy
    Just throw this out there. 40 flat nose, 45 round nose.
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  • remingtonoaks
    The .380 is one of the most underrated cartridges out there. With the right projectile, it's a very capable caliber.

    And in fact it can be more effective with it's lighter recoil by making it easier to make faster and more accurate follow-up shots
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  • mnrivrat48
    The structure of cast iron really doesn't make this test a real informative influence on me. I suspect a good whack with a ballpeen hammer might give similar results.
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  • buschmaster
    a frying pan is a thin hard barrier. kinetic energy is what matters (not power factor) dude says he was using WWB so here are the numbers.

    .380, 95 grain, 950 ft/s, KE= 190
    9mm, 115 grain, 1190 ft/s, KE= 362
    .40SW, 180 grain, 1020 ft/s, KE= 416
    .45ACP, 230 grain, 835 ft/s, KE= 356

    when he shot the frying pan, they all went through. all that means is that... they all had enough power to do it. try something tougher and at some point 9mm and .45 will fail, but .40 will go through.

    shooting a lot of different things you would see .380 fail first while the others still penetrate.

    .380 may not have penetrated the frying pan either. it's only half as powerful as 9mm. see the numbers.

    if you had a chronograph behind the frying pan to see what the remaining velocity was, you could calculate what KE was required to penetrate that frying pan and tell if .380 would do it or not.
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  • p3skyking
    As many of you know, I spend the money and do my own ammo test. I also play real life utility of ammo, not some BS FP per M squared.

    Out to fifty yards, the .380 ball will do anything 9mm ball will do.
    The Gold Sabre round beat the Black Talon by a slight greater expansion.

    Defensive pistol use is 21 feet or less usually. I don't care that I can't penetrate a steel plate at 100 yards. I quit carrying a dollar a shot ammo and just carry ball. I've put down enough dogs to know the head shot is the way to go with man or beast.

    Out to fifty yards, you can penetrate a car door okay. Due to the lighter 95 gr. .380 projectile v. the 9mm 115 or 147 gr, performance drops off after 50 yards. But who is going into a 100 yard pistol fight?
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  • Mobuck
    ".380 may not have penetrated the frying pan either. it's only half as powerful as 9mm. see the numbers."

    The .380 is pretty disappointing when shot into water filled milk jugs vs. the 9mm. Although not as close to tissue as ballistic gelatin, the water filled jugs can provide side by side comparisons that are viable.
    My Son was testing the expansion of different .380 bullets in his carry popper. After he was done, I drew my 9mm loaded with non-+P 124 grain GoldDot ammo and fired at the final pair of jugs(lined up one behind the other) shredding the first jug and blowing the back out of the second. After shredding the first jug, the GoldDot did as much damage to the second as most of the .380 HP bullets did to their initial target. I'll admit that the 9mm barrel was about 1" longer than the .380 but both are typical of the lengths found on a majority of the more popular pistols.
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  • kannoneer
    I wish he would have tried the .380; I think it would have gone through. Even then, how often does someone get attacked by a skillet?
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  • savage170
    quote:Originally posted by kannoneer
    I wish he would have tried the .380; I think it would have gone through. Even then, how often does someone get attacked by a skillet?


    This one includes the 380
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i22-nMxnHrE
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  • buschmaster
    quote:Originally posted by p3skyking
    I spend the money and do my own ammo test. I also play real life utility of ammo, not some BS FP per M squared.the .380 ACP has a case volume of 11.5 grams H2O and a maximum pressure of 21,500 PSI. since pressure is linearly proportional to energy density we will multiply pressure and volume to define a total amount of energy, scaled to proportion by dividing by 10,000 and calling it the busch-o-scale of cartridge energy. units are pound-(grams of H2O)/in^2.

    .380 ACP, 25
    9mm, 47
    .40 S&W, 68
    .45 ACP, 56

    so you can see that .380 ACP has half the energy of 9mm.

    also of note is the fact that .40 S&W has more energy than the .45 ACP, which in this case is expressed more as kinetic energy than power factor, due to the smaller bullet diameter and correspondingly smaller bullet weights which result in higher velocity.

    and then the case volume to barrel length must be at a certain proportion for maximum efficiency. irregardless of whether it's a bottleneck case or straight wall, because volume is volume and it can be expressed as length times area of the caliber.

    V=L*A

    A=PI*r^2

    since D=2*r --> D/2=r

    A=PI*(D/2)^2 --> A=PI*(D^2)/4

    so then

    V=L*PI*(D^2)/4 --> L=(4*V)/(PI*D^2)

    and an arbitrary "length" can be expressed in terms of case volume and caliber.

    divide that by caliber (again) to get a ratio of (arbitrary) length to barrel length.

    I will use .44MAG as a calibration point, since that has a large straight-wall handgun case volume, therefore less prone to error. it is most efficient at 7.0".

    semiauto cartridges, most efficient barrel length:

    .380 ACP, 3.1"
    9mm, 4.3"
    .40 S&W, 4.4"
    .45 ACP, 4.3"

    compared to revolver cartridges:

    .38 SPL, 7.5"
    .357 MAG, 8.4"
    .44 SPL, 6.0"
    .44 MAG, 7.0"
    .45 LC, 6.5"

    so we see that semiauto cartridges do indeed function more efficiently in the shorter semiauto-length barrels, while revolver cartridges function more efficiently in the longer revolver barrels. and the .380 ACP, while quite underpowered, is nevertheless the most efficient pocket pistol cartridge.
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  • grumpygy
    But at the distance he was at could he hit the frying pan with the .380.[8D]
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  • buschmaster
    grains
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  • tapwater
    ..A cast iron skillet huh? When I was a kid, we fed our dog
    outside from old cast skillets. When food got frozen in it,
    I would sometimes whack it on the concrete to get it empty.
    I had more than one shatter or break in half from a little
    whack. I can't see where his test shows any real world evidence
    of anything.
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  • roswellnative
    quote:Originally posted by kannoneer
    I wish he would have tried the .380; I think it would have gone through. Even then, how often does someone get attacked by a skillet?


    ... at 50 yards
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  • buschmaster
    well if you like comparison videos, this guy on youtube named Langley has dozens, shooting all sorts of stuff. get on youtube and search Langley plus whatever else, like "Langley .380"
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  • mlincoln
    quote:Originally posted by tapwater
    ..A cast iron skillet huh? When I was a kid, we fed our dog
    outside from old cast skillets. When food got frozen in it,
    I would sometimes whack it on the concrete to get it empty.
    I had more than one shatter or break in half from a little
    whack. I can't see where his test shows any real world evidence
    of anything.


    My thoughts exactly. It's notoriously brittle.
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  • rong
    Thin cast. That's not your momma's cast iron
    frying pan. When I was in my late 20's (about 40yrs ago)
    I shot one of my mother's cast iron pans with a 44 mag---
    Not knowing what would happen so I took a bead and partially
    hid behind a tree. The 44 didn't punch thru it, it cracked the pan
    into many pieces! Much heavier cast in those days.
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  • wpageabc
    The wife attacked me with a skillet. Though tempted to resist with the 9mm decided to run and hide.
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  • bobski
    flesh is what counts. the rest is just internet play that clutters the www.
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  • Mr. Perfect
    quote:Originally posted by kannoneer
    I wish he would have tried the .380; I think it would have gone through. Even then, how often does someone get attacked by a skillet?
    Not often. But cast iron is so brittle I doubt the .380 would be stopped by it. Especially that thin pan.
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  • droptop
    quote:Originally posted by Mr. Perfect
    quote:Originally posted by kannoneer
    I wish he would have tried the .380; I think it would have gone through. Even then, how often does someone get attacked by a skillet?
    Not often. But cast iron is so brittle I doubt the .380 would be stopped by it. Especially that thin pan.
    Probably more than you think.

    Jack Reacher has probably used several.
    If you are ever in a real self-defense situation and there is a frying pan around, remember that while it is an improvised weapon it is definitely NOT a non-lethal one. You cannot reliably knock someone temporarily unconscious with a blow to the head. Never hit anyone in the head with a frying pan or any other object that is sharp, hard, and/or heavy if you are not willing to kill them.
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  • Mr. Perfect
    quote:Originally posted by droptop
    quote:Originally posted by Mr. Perfect
    quote:Originally posted by kannoneer
    I wish he would have tried the .380; I think it would have gone through. Even then, how often does someone get attacked by a skillet?
    Not often. But cast iron is so brittle I doubt the .380 would be stopped by it. Especially that thin pan.
    Probably more than you think.

    Jack Reacher has probably used several.
    If you are ever in a real self-defense situation and there is a frying pan around, remember that while it is an improvised weapon it is definitely NOT a non-lethal one. You cannot reliably knock someone temporarily unconscious with a blow to the head. Never hit anyone in the head with a frying pan or any other object that is sharp, hard, and/or heavy if you are not willing to kill them.
    Even still, it would be someone... a person doing the attacking... not the pan itself. [;)]
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  • buschmaster
    Winchester White Box:

    .380, 95 grain, 950 ft/s, KE= 190
    .45ACP, 230 grain, 835 ft/s, KE= 356
    9mm, 115 grain, 1190 ft/s, KE= 362
    .40SW, 180 grain, 1020 ft/s, KE= 416
    .357 Sig, 125 grain, 1350 ft/s, KE= 506

    busch-o-scale of cartridge energy:

    .380 ACP, 25
    9mm, 47
    .45 ACP, 56
    .40 S&W, 68
    .357 Sig, 78
    10mm, 90
    .357 Mag, 92
    .41 Mag, 122
    .44 Mag, 136
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  • Mobuck
    "As soon as milk jugs and frying pans can tell me how functional they would be after taking a round or two, I might listen to them."

    As soon as ballistic gelatin reaches the price of empty milk jugs and water, I'll start using that.
    Although water filled milk jugs are not relative to flesh, they DO provide an affordable one on one comparison vs the mindless theoretical bluster and BS often seen on the internet.
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  • JimmyJack
    I made a spinning target out of 1/2 inch mild steel plate. I figured most of my handguns would maybe dent it . Most did. Then I tried my 30.06 at about 40 yars. It didnt even spin! It blew a perfect hole clean through it.
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  • Arby
    I carry a 1911 most times and a .38spl other times... but I do believe that getting popped with a 380, center mass, will undoubtedly ruin your whole day.Shot placement is more important than tissue damage in my opinion.
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