Arsenic in the Soil from Pressure Treated Wood
Twenty years ago my Mom had a house built. There were some leftover scraps of pressure treated wood and they were burned out in the yard.
In 2004 I learned that the PT wood of the old days contained arsenic.
So, now the house is up for sale, we had the spot tested where that wood got burned, and it is toxic for arsenic. After 20 years it is still toxic.
The size of this fire was maybe 8 feet across.
Can the dirt just be dug up and taken to a landfill?
In 2004 I learned that the PT wood of the old days contained arsenic.
So, now the house is up for sale, we had the spot tested where that wood got burned, and it is toxic for arsenic. After 20 years it is still toxic.
The size of this fire was maybe 8 feet across.
Can the dirt just be dug up and taken to a landfill?
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quote:Originally posted by allen griggs
Twenty years ago I built my Mom a log cabin in north Georgia. Had some pressure treated scraps from the decks, and I burned them along with other scraps out in the yard.
In 2004 I learned that the PT wood of the old days contained arsenic.
So, now the house is up for sale, we had the spot tested where that wood got burned, and it is toxic for arsenic. After 20 years, still 3 times the toxic level.
So this is an area about 10 foot by 10 foot.
Has anybody had to deal with this problem? Can we just dig it up, down to 6 inches deep, say, and haul it to the landfill?
The landfill will not take bio-hazardous material. You will have to dispose of it properly
As far as the depth of the contamination, you will have to dig down and see how far down it's contaminated through further testing. Also how far out it has spread.
That's if you want to be in compliance.
The best thing to do is talk to the testing facility, they will know the procedures on curing the problem0 -
quote:Originally posted by remingtonoaks
quote:Originally posted by allen griggs
Twenty years ago I built my Mom a log cabin in north Georgia. Had some pressure treated scraps from the decks, and I burned them along with other scraps out in the yard.
In 2004 I learned that the PT wood of the old days contained arsenic.
So, now the house is up for sale, we had the spot tested where that wood got burned, and it is toxic for arsenic. After 20 years, still 3 times the toxic level.
So this is an area about 10 foot by 10 foot.
Has anybody had to deal with this problem? Can we just dig it up, down to 6 inches deep, say, and haul it to the landfill?
The landfill will not take bio-hazardous material. You will have to dispose of it properly
As far as the depth of the contamination, you will have to dig down and see how far down it's contaminated. Also how far out it has spread
Not sure how much time you have...but perhaps you could fill and plant something that will help get the arsenic out of the soil? Earth is pretty good about healing itself when you give it the right tools to fix itself.0 -
If you can't take it to the landfill, how do you dispose of this properly.
By the way I am not the Lone Ranger, I worked commercial construction for many years as a laborer, brick mason's helper, and carpenter, and saw, and lit, innumerable construction fires.
They took arsenic out of the PT wood in 2004. Most of the houses and apartments built in the 30 years prior to that have decks or porches of PT, arsenic, wood.
Also, arsenic leaches out of PT decks in the rain, and falls upon the earth below and makes it toxic.
There are many millions of houses and apartments in America that have arsenic in the soil.0 -
I'm sorry to say I can't tell you nor do I know how to deal with contaminated soil.
But again, your testing facility will know the proper procedures...0 -
You might want to contact your local DNR (Department of Natural Resources) and ask them.
Often contaminated soil must remain in the county it is located in. It's not unusual for soil to be 'cleaned' by burning off the toxins (again, with the county).0 -
quote:Originally posted by Junkballer
Addition to what I posted above, I'm in Georgia and the dirt was dug and trucked to a site in Alabama, cooked and then trucked back, all with special teams involved, damn near every government agency was involved, all with different direction conflicting with each other, like said for a small spot like that, remain silent, I know of no law pertaining to a home site being forced into inspection but who knows now days ?? very EXPENSIVE $$ involved all falling on you.
If you read his original post he says he already has had it inspected. I think it's too late to be silent about it.0 -
https://www.epa.gov/remedytech/arsenic-treatment-technologies-soil-waste-and-water
http://www.genomenewsnetwork.org/articles/2004/08/06/fern.php
https://clu-in.org/download/remed/542r02004/arsenic_report.pdf
Lastly make sure it was from your pressure treated wood. Some places have naturally occurring arsenic.0 -
The fern idea is a good one but the house is supposed to go on the market pretty soon before fern season. 0 -
I will say that, I have a nightmare story about the EPA, I have told it before but it bears repeating.
My buddy lived in a small town in central Georgia, he had a very successful starter/alternator rebuilding business and had made a lot of money. Dan had a $250K house, a Sting Ray, five employees and a stacked blonde girlfriend and he was 29 years old.
He bought an old gas station that had not pumped a gallon of gas in five years. I knew, because I lived right across the street from the gas station.
Dan hired a black teenage kid to sell roses from the place. I can still see that kid sitting there in a lawn chair with six five gallon buckets of roses for sale.
Dan didn't know what he would do with the gas station just bought it for an investment, looked better to him than Krugerrands I guess. Paid $40K for the place.
The EPA got on to Dan and determined that the underground gas tanks had leaked gas into the soil. Toxic waste site!
The EPA knew damn well that Dan had never pumped a gallon from those tanks, and they knew who the previous owners were, of course, but they went after Dan.
Dan was a young guy, he had a note on the Sting Ray, the house, and the business he was not a Dave Ramsey guy.
The EPA hit him with many many thousands in fines and penalties, and six months later, he had no business, he had no house he moved back in with Mom, he had no Sting Ray, and he had no stacked blonde girlfriend.
So I am scared to death that the feds will find out about our little "toxic site" they can really make life hell for you.0 -
Search for toxic soil remediation company - those key words is a search engine or google should bare fruit
A neighbor had it done when his home heat oil tank (sub surface) failed and leaked out
They will dig a much larger footprint and to a much greater depth
They will have to post notice and have permits and inspectors
They may test other areas of your property or adjacent property depending on drainage and water table and grading
It must go to a specially licensed disposal sight - it may not be permitted in a dump or landfill
It may require closed cycle incineration
It will not be cheap - and it will not be quick
You may be obligated to inform and disclose when selling the property
Other self help options may be illegal or violate federal law - don't mess with the era
Not trying to lecture or talk down to you but it can be a serious problem
Mike0 -
Too bad you had it tested, now you're liable for the cleanup before you can sell the house.
And as Mike said, don't mess with the EPA. They not only can make you clean it up, but can give you heavy fines for disposing of it illegally. And now that you had a testing company coming in and test the soil. The EPA will be notified and will be watching you...
But this is just my opinion. But if your brother is a lawyer, I would have him check out all the legalities of it. You don't want it to cost more than what it already is going to cost.0 -
Allen, about 20 years ago when I was manager of a resort near Tampa Florida I had to have some ?dirty soil? removed from near our treatment plant. The EPA was notified by one of the residents our my park. We had to hire a special disposal company to come in and place all the ? dirty dirt? in 55 gallon barrels and then it was placed on a special tractor trailer and hauled to a place some where in Georgia. At the time I was told that all ? dirty dirt? from the southeast went to this disposal yard in Georgia. It cost the resort 1500.00 dollars a barrel 20 years ago. It?s hard to say what today?s cost would be. 0 -
sounds like a huge can of worms has been opened
sorry to hear I am sure it will be a major sink hole for your money [:(]
best of luck in finding a solution0 -
convenience store in my home town knew they were losing gasoline but loss was "acceptable" so they kept operating.
Years later the store was sold to a chain and they demanded testing of the site.
Not sure what it cost but I heard they dug down like 150 feet to get all the contaminated soil out.0 -
endured an 18 year battle with the DEP over closed in place underground gasoline tanks that were on the property that my parents purchased back in '72. BTW, after all was said and done- NOT ONE GRAM OF CONTAMINATION WAS EVER FOUND IN, ON, AROUND, UNDER ANY OF THE TANKS OR SOIL! I'll pray for you........................... 0 -
some govt agencies live only to find a problem that keeps them alive and recieving a paycheck... some actions i have heard of concerning toxic stuff in the ground was to dig it all up and transport it to CLEAN ground and spread it all around for the sun to disappear the problem ??????????? i have seen it done ...declaring a place with oil in the ground a hazard when millions of miles of blacktop roads are made with emulsion oil(oil, chemicals, and water mix) are all across the country 0 -
Tell prospective buyers not to eat dirt from that particular area. 0 -
Arsenic is a heavy metal isn't it? Not sure it could be burned out of the soil.
Depending on how much time you have I know some plants absorb arsenic at a pretty good rate. My wife just read something that said brussel sprouts depending on where grown can have high levels of arsenic from the soil.0 -
If the spot isn't a garden spot why does it matter? Arsenic occurs naturally, the fact it's there isn't the issue. The issue is, does it pose a risk? 0 -
Where is the house. I have investors that can look past asenic...
Ros0 -
Why did you test? Did the real-estate people make you because of the bare spot? 0 -
Take the soil from that area and spread it all around the property. Then have the rest of the soil tested.
The earlier test would then show it to be a normal level for the area.[:I]0 -
quote:Yes. Seventy years of safe use and the body of sound scientific and medical evidence demonstrate that chromated copper arsenate (CCA) pressure treated wood is safe when used as recommended.
The US EPA currently is re-evaluating CCA as part of a mandated reregistration process applicable to all pesticide products. EPA has not identified any unreasonable risks associated with the treatment or use of CCA-treated wood.
With respect to existing structures in residential settings, EPA recently completed an assessment of potential risks to children who may play on CCA-treated playsets and decks. EPA concluded that there are no unacceptable risks to the public for existing CCA-treated wood being used around homes . EPA does not believe there is any reason to remove or replace CCA-treated structures, including decks or playground equipment. EPA is not recommending that existing structures or surrounding soils be removed or replaced. Further, EPA has not recommended that there is any need to take steps such as applying coatings to minimize exposure.0 -
Some things are better left unknown. I would have never had it tested. I have a couple of old houses that I could assume had lead paint. Everything is covered with latex that is not pealing and is legal. I would never consider having it tested for lead. If tested and found it is a problem. If not tested it is no problem. 0 -
Out here in the country we call that free fill dirt. 0 -
What prompted you to have it tested?
I would imagine dealing with the EPA under the Trunp Administration would be a lots less hassle, but still a hassle.
In 2009 our old very latrge Post & Beam Dairy Barn burnt to the ground. I hired a friend to clean up the area for me, and I called the State Department of Environmental Conservation to ask them what I should do with all the debris?
They asked what equipment I had on hand, and told them a dozer, track-hoe, and tractor with a bucket. They recommend that I use the track-hoe to dig a large hole in the ground on my land, and then use the dozer & tractor to push all the debris into it & cover it up.
They didn?t have to tell me twice...[^]
Trinity +++
Trinity +++0 -
The irony is, drum roll......[B)]
quote:Nicotine, the addictive ingredient in cigarettes, can be quite a lethal compound. It's widely recognized to be deadly at doses between 30 and 60 milligrams, making it more dangerous than both arsenic and cyanide. But thanks to some scientific sleuthing courtesy of a dedicated toxicologist, nicotine may have to surrender its infamous position.0 -
quote:Originally posted by slumlord44
Some things are better left unknown. I would have never had it tested. I have a couple of old houses that I could assume had lead paint. Everything is covered with latex that is not pealing and is legal. I would never consider having it tested for lead. If tested and found it is a problem. If not tested it is no problem.
BINGO!!0 -
In 2004 the EPA mandated that the chemical for pressure treated wood be changed. And they said that the chemical they were using was arsenic.
So I knew that wood had been burned there in 1998. So, my Mom wanted to make a tomato garden on that spot.
I knew, from high school chemistry, that arsenic is not only an element, but it is a heavy metal. It isn't going to dissolve in water.
So I got my brother to go to that spot where the fire had been, he took a soil sample and sent it off to a lab, the report is that it is 3 times the toxic level for arsenic.
I was planning to call the local landfill there and see if they would take the dirt. Sounds like y'all are not too optimistic that they would take it.
See, the neighbor is considering buying the property, and the brother told the neighbor about the arsenic. I wish he had kept his mouth shut.
So, the EPA doesn't know but the neighbor knows.0
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