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National day of mourning

SW0320
Do you have a paid day off tomorrow?
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  • Don McManus
    quote:Originally posted by Barzillia
    quote:Originally posted by Don McManus
    quote:Originally posted by Barzillia
    https://crooksandliars.com/2018/12/donald-trump-your-not-so-evangelical?utm_source=social&utm_medium=twitter&utm_content=6722


    A bit of a straw-man, don't you think?

    I do not remember Trump ever claiming to be an evangelical Christian.




    https://www.newsweek.com/donald-melania-trump-dont-pray-apostle-creed-sing-hymns-obamas-clintons-1245879


    Is that better ?

    Of course, there is always this approach :

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/religion/2018/12/06/trump-didnt-say-apostles-creed-bushs-funeral-liberal-evangelical-i-say-good-him/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.af4cec733103




    Much better Barzillia. Particularly the line from the second link in your last post:

    'Sincere abstention is more meaningful than insincere participation.'

    I still don't know why this is news, other than folks seem to go out of their way to find flaws in this guy.

    He had three choices.

    1. Learn the creed and the hymns and pretend they were part of his life.

    2. Pretend to mouth the words and get caught.

    3. Do the honest thing, and stand respectfully while others either recited things important to them or that they felt would best be thought of as important to them.

    I would guess that this creed and these hymns are not a part of Trump's daily life, and he did the honorable thing and simply respected those that held them sacred.

    IMO, he did the right thing.
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  • Don McManus
    quote:Originally posted by Barzillia
    Don, this was essentially intended to be an in-house discussion.

    Trump?s irreligiosity, despite his proclamations and those of others, can provide the means for focusing on the fact that the Church today should be moving towards not less theology influencing politics, but less politics influencing the Church.

    As the old saying goes, the Church is in the world, as it should be, but he problem today is that the world is also in the Church.

    Surprised that you should be interested.

    There should be no doubt that ?evangelical? has come to signify multiply different and sometimes contradictory things to people, and while POTUS may not have used the term to describe himself, professed ?evangelicals? are in the decided majority of his nominally Christian religious soirees held both in the White House, and out.

    https://www.thelily.com/she-led-trump-to-christ-the-rise-of-the-televangelist-who-advises-the-white-house/

    While there is not much on this topic covered widely in the press, there is enough for those who are interested to try, and discern certain things, and discuss them.

    Many in the Church have conditionally supported POTUS, but only so far as based upon his current behaviors and policies.

    This is simply current events, and a particular take on them.

    It is interesting that your idea of his three possible choices all presuppose that POTUS does not share a belief in the fundamentals of the gospel, as reflected in the Apostles' Creed.

    As far as "'Sincere abstention is more meaningful than insincere participation.'", I am not sure that one form of rebellion is particularly better or more righteous than another.

    The words to the Apostle's Creed were printed in the memoriam he was holding in his hand, it is clearly seen that others are reading from it during the service.

    Since POTUS has claimed to be a Christian, a protestant, and a Presbyterian, a reasonable question should arise when he is unwilling/unable to confess one of the oldest creeds of that faith.



    All good points, Barzillia.

    I think a significant additional point, one that you allude to regarding his 'soirees' into Christendom is that he, as the GOP candidate and now a GOP President, he has boxes that had to be checked during the campaign and that continue now as the titular GOP leader and, perhaps more significantly, as the standard bearer going into 2020.

    I will not publically question his faith as a Christian, as it is not my place, nor am I qualified. It is readily apparent that the rituals and strict adherence to the values (for lack of a better word) of the Presbyterian church were not a driving force in his life prior to, during, and after the campaign.

    Yes, it is a reasonable question to ask why he did not participate.

    My suggestions is not that it is perhaps rooted in his non-belief of the fundamentals of the gospel, rather in his personal feelings towards the specific script and venue.
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