Guns From Vending Machines
I like to bring this up from time to time for the newbies who fall under the spell of the neanderthals here who gipe, bitch, moan, complain, find fault, insult and also claim that if you are to be a TRUE American, and TRUE believer in the US Constitution and a TRUE man then you must support having absolutely no gun laws what-so-ever.
Now this attitude of theirs has generated countless hours of arguments and debate about who is right. I merely want to post a single simple sentence about this.
If you agree with their position, that means handguns can legally be sold out of vending machines to anyone with the money.
If you think that attitude is to crazy and nobody here actually believes it (such as the yellow canary asses) then just you ask them and find out.
So, is that what everyone here wants? Let's separate the crazy people from the at least half-way sane on this matter.
Now this attitude of theirs has generated countless hours of arguments and debate about who is right. I merely want to post a single simple sentence about this.
If you agree with their position, that means handguns can legally be sold out of vending machines to anyone with the money.
If you think that attitude is to crazy and nobody here actually believes it (such as the yellow canary asses) then just you ask them and find out.
So, is that what everyone here wants? Let's separate the crazy people from the at least half-way sane on this matter.
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This is exactly why we will NEVER stand on the same side of that line. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by Horse Plains Drifter
This is exactly we will NEVER stand on the same side of that line.
Ah....which "side?" The side saying it is fine with them to have handguns sold out of vending machines to kids, convicted violent criminals, gang bangers, etc.?
Or my side who says such a thing is just plain crazy.
So, which side?0 -
The skunk in your theoretical woodpile is the exact same skunk that was there the last time you posted a variation of this hypothesis.....
'Minor children' are governed by the dictates of their parents, tr. Therefore, a vending machine approach would remove those parental control mechanisms, which is unacceptable.
Setting aside minor children, free-adults are able to purchase what they want, when they want it.
It is and always has been about the use and/or misuse (read 'bad-act') of whatever is purchased or possessed. Be that a gun, a car, a boat, a case of beer, a bottle of whiskey, a ball bat, a knife, a few pounds of black powder, or any other commodity.
This pesky little 'principle of individual liberty' is where you always trip and fall flat on your face, tr and where you self-expose as one who is really naught but a collectivist at heart.0 -
quote:Originally posted by lt496
The skunk in your theoretical woodpile is the exact same skunk that was there the last time you posted a variation of this hypothesis.....
'Minor children' are governed by the dictates of their parents, tr. Therefore, a vending machine approach would remove those parental control mechanisms, which is unacceptable.
Setting aside minor children, free-adults are able to purchase what they want, when they want it.
It is and always has been about the use and/or misuse (read 'bad-act') of whatever is purchased or possessed. Be that a gun, a car, a boat, a case of beer, a bottle of whiskey, a ball bat, a knife, a few pounds of black powder, or any other commodity.
This pesky little 'principle of individual liberty' is where you always trip and fall flat on your face, tr and where you self-expose as one who is really naught but a collectivist at heart.
So...........you favor selling handguns from vending machines? "Yes or No" please because until Pickenup saves you guys I am going to beat you to death with it this time.0 -
quote:Originally posted by tr fox
quote:Originally posted by Horse Plains Drifter
This is exactly we will NEVER stand on the same side of that line.
Ah....which "side?" The side saying it is fine with them to have handguns sold out of vending machines to kids, convicted violent criminals, gang bangers, etc.?
Or my side who says such a thing is just plain crazy.
So, which side?
Here is a pose O Dense One, where you stated you would be standing on the same side of the line as the CAs. REST ASSURED you will NEVER, EVER stand on the same side of the line as a CA. ANY line.
http://forums.gunbroker.com/topic.asp?whichpage=2&TOPIC_ID=399841#3289075
quote:tr fox
Like I told lt246 once, if a line was drawn in the sand and all Americans were forced to stand on one or the other side of that line, I would be standing with you and the other yellow canary asses. Although I would stand as far apart as reasonably possible due to all the hostility you guys feel towards me.0 -
quote:Originally posted by tr fox
quote:Originally posted by lt496
The skunk in your theoretical woodpile is the exact same skunk that was there the last time you posted a variation of this hypothesis.....
'Minor children' are governed by the dictates of their parents, tr. Therefore, a vending machine approach would remove those parental control mechanisms, which is unacceptable.
Setting aside minor children, free-adults are able to purchase what they want, when they want it.
It is and always has been about the use and/or misuse (read 'bad-act') of whatever is purchased or possessed. Be that a gun, a car, a boat, a case of beer, a bottle of whiskey, a ball bat, a knife, a few pounds of black powder, or any other commodity.
This pesky little 'principle of individual liberty' is where you always trip and fall flat on your face, tr and where you self-expose as one who is really naught but a collectivist at heart.
So...........you favor selling handguns from vending machines? "Yes or No" please because until Pickenup saves you guys I am going to beat you to death with it this time.
You couldn't win an argument on individual liberty, or a battle of principals, if your life depended on it.
Obviously you have a reading comprehension deficiency, since I already stated, in essence, that setting aside the issue of 'minor children', free-adults should be able to purchase from vending machines, sidewalk vendors, back alley dealers, or pick guns off of trees.
Is that clear enough for you fox?0 -
quote:Originally posted by tr fox
quote:Originally posted by lt496
The skunk in your theoretical woodpile is the exact same skunk that was there the last time you posted a variation of this hypothesis.....
'Minor children' are governed by the dictates of their parents, tr. Therefore, a vending machine approach would remove those parental control mechanisms, which is unacceptable.
Setting aside minor children, free-adults are able to purchase what they want, when they want it.
It is and always has been about the use and/or misuse (read 'bad-act') of whatever is purchased or possessed. Be that a gun, a car, a boat, a case of beer, a bottle of whiskey, a ball bat, a knife, a few pounds of black powder, or any other commodity.
This pesky little 'principle of individual liberty' is where you always trip and fall flat on your face, tr and where you self-expose as one who is really naught but a collectivist at heart.
So...........you favor selling handguns from vending machines? "Yes or No" please because until Pickenup saves you guys I am going to beat you to death with it this time.Where are you at, fox, putting together a 'beat you to death' kit?
Don't run from your own topic. It was jsut starting to get interesting.[:)]0 -
quote:Originally posted by tr fox
I like to bring this up from time to time for the newbies who fall under the spell of the neanderthals here who gipe, bitch, moan, complain, find fault, insult and also claim that if you are to be a TRUE American, and TRUE believer in the US Constitution and a TRUE man then you must support having absolutely no gun laws what-so-ever.
Now this attitude of theirs has generated countless hours of arguments and debate about who is right. I merely want to post a single simple sentence about this.
If you agree with their position, that means handguns can legally be sold out of vending machines to anyone with the money.
If you think that attitude is to crazy and nobody here actually believes it (such as the yellow canary asses) then just you ask them and find out.
So, is that what everyone here wants? Let's separate the crazy people from the at least half-way sane on this matter.
I, for one, have a very BIG problem with this.
Handguns out of a vending machine?
What if one wished to purchase a rifle or a shotgun? Now, of course, the machine would have to be larger, and the selection would most likely not be as vast as with the handgun vending machine, but fair is fair; if you're going to vend handguns, accomodations need to be made for the fellow, or gal, who wants a bottle of pop, a pack of crackers, and an 870 or a BAR.
[:D][:D][:D]0 -
Just another wet dream from TR's fantasy world! As usual when pushed he tucks tail and hides in his burrow, only his yellow stripe is showing. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by tr fox
Ah....which "side?" The side saying it is fine with them to have handguns sold out of vending machines to kids, convicted violent criminals, gang bangers, etc.?
Or my side who says such a thing is just plain crazy.
once a convicted criminal has finished their sentence/parole, that person should be seen as a regular citizen, with all rights intact.
i also favor a realistic sentence to begin with.
12.5yrs served for a 25-life sentence for murder?
anything other than death for child molesters?
no way.
funny thing is....
the people who demand regulation are the same that protest appropriate punishments for the worst of criminals.
but i digress....
a person who has paid their debt is a free man.
what you are suggesting is that not only is a criminal given a bill that can never be satisfied, but that the rest of the population...those who are guilty of NO crime....must have their rights infringed as part of the criminals' punishment.
you are suggesting that you agree with the government's wisdom, which states that once you step out of line for any reason, your god given rights can be taken away for life.
do you actually stand by your statement that it's OUR side that's crazy?0 -
Many moons ago, one could buy beer from vending machines on military bases. Maybe one still can. It has been a number of years. Did not seem to cause any problems.
When we get our justice system fixed, I see little problem with this. It has always been a been a multi-pronged approach, and this step is the cart that should not be put in front of the horse.
The first step has always been to isolate from society those that should be isolated from society. Freedom for those not isolated should follow immediately thereafter.
It certainly makes more sense that restricting all for the actions of a few.0 -
quote:Originally posted by tr fox
I like to bring this up from time to time for the newbies who fall under the spell of the neanderthals here who gipe, bitch, moan, complain, find fault, insult and also claim that if you are to be a TRUE American, and TRUE believer in the US Constitution and a TRUE man then you must support having absolutely no gun laws what-so-ever.
Now this attitude of theirs has generated countless hours of arguments and debate about who is right. I merely want to post a single simple sentence about this.
If you agree with their position, that means handguns can legally be sold out of vending machines to anyone with the money.
If you think that attitude is to crazy and nobody here actually believes it (such as the yellow canary asses) then just you ask them and find out.
So, is that what everyone here wants? Let's separate the crazy people from the at least half-way sane on this matter.
Tr Fox, there was a time when guns were sold as a commodity, over the counter to any who wanted them. What changed? That is a question worth thinking about.
I live in a restrictive state where we must jump through hoops to get a handgun. Criminals on the other hand, do not jump through hoops and get weapons as if they were buying from vending machines. No hoop is going to keep nuts, criminals and others from being armed. The state, however, knows that they can keep law abiding citizens disarmed because, by their very nature they obey laws.
The one thing these politicians forget as they impose more and more restrictions on our ever day lives, be it with gun control, taxes, speech, they further disenfranchise those of us who are the supports of the civil society they are trying to "protect".
I always liked the adage "an armed society is a polite society".0 -
There is a concept that gun controllers don't seem to grasp. It doesn't matter, selling guns from vending machines, or by filling our restrictive forms to see if the government will allow you to buy it. There is nothing that can stop a criminal from acquiring a firearm if they want one. That is why they are criminals. 0 -
quote:....until Pickenup saves you guys I am going to beat you to death with it this time.Hurry, fox....pickenup has not stepped in to 'save' us from your beating and there is still some life left in us, so you have lots of work to do.....
You never returned to your own thread here to point out the error of the opposing arguments presented.
You inferred that you had a gotcha-argument. I am still waiting to see the 'gotcha' part... quote: Let's separate the crazy people from the at least half-way sane on this matter.So far, all I have seen 'separated', is the constitutionalists and liberty supporters from, well, from 'you', trfox.
Where did you go, big-boy?0 -
As some may have noted in a prior topic, I posted a summation of the history of gun control. Rather than a vending machine, how about just ordering them through the Sears catalog like we used to? That's about as close as you can come to some strange concoction of a machine to dispense rifles, pistols, etc.
I would favor returning to that format. The fallacy of gun control is that criminals will obey this new law. All the new law gives the government is an additional charge (never needed anyway) when they finally get the criminal into a courtroom.
I see no problem with an 8-year old having a 22 cal. rifle and a parent teaching them proper respect, for both the weapon and society. So what's changed here? Society. We have "kids" running around without any parental governance. We had this back in the "Five Points" of New York during the influx of immigration at Ellis Island. This culture brought us the likes of Al Capone, Bugsy Seagal, and many more.
Gun control did nothing to stop these people from continuing to flaunt their conduct in the face of the law. So would doing nothing have made it better? This amounts to theoretical pondering at best.
I advocate guns being back in the hands of those who have done nothing wrong.
I advocate guns being in the hands of those who want them despite those who fear them.
I advocate less governmental control and more self-control.
I advocate the government fearing us instead of the other way around.
So if you can create the vending machine, I'll be the first to purchase from it.0 -
I think ol Fox run and hid under the bed. He won't come out because nobody else came on here to support his twisted vision. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by Horse Plains Drifter
I think ol Fox run and hid under the bed. He won't come out because nobody else came on here to support his twisted vision.
[:D][;)]0 -
Here Foxie, Foxie, Foxie!
Lance0 -
I did a little web search and came up with this gem for you fox. 
0 -
quote:Originally posted by tr fox
until Pickenup saves you guys
Sorry I haven't "saved" you guys yet.
Been kinda busy ya know.
Had to get another cup of coffee, and other......equally important stuff.
At least he got the name right........this time. [:D]0 -
At a first quick glance, it struck me that there might be something wrong with buying a handgun from a vending machine. Any idiot or miscreant could buy one, if he had the money. Yet when I was a kid, as someone here has already mentioned, anyone who had the money could buy most guns through the Sears and Roebuck (and other) catalogs (by the way this was after the '34 NFA, so we couldn't buy those in my youth either). Were we worse off back then? I actually think we were all better off. It seemed, anyway, as if there were fewer crimes, armed or otherwise. Society was more polite. Of course, I lived a sheltered life in a small coal-mining town in Pennsylvania. Maybe the immediacy of getting the gun from the vending machine seems dangerous (you know, crime of passion, before one has collected one's senses, etc.). So, can we actually go back to the good old days? Or has something intrinsically changed in society? I'd rather think it worked just fine back then, everything that has changed has been for the worse. 0 -
OH, don't worry. I'm got some upcoming stuff. I just don't have much time to waste on you guys.
But I will soon find some.0 -
quote:Originally posted by PA Shootist
At a first quick glance, it struck me that there might be something wrong with buying a handgun from a vending machine. Any idiot or miscreant could buy one, if he had the money. Yet when I was a kid, as someone here has already mentioned, anyone who had the money could buy most guns through the Sears and Roebuck (and other) catalogs (by the way this was after the '34 NFA, so we couldn't buy those in my youth either). Were we worse off back then? I actually think we were all better off. It seemed, anyway, as if there were fewer crimes, armed or otherwise. Society was more polite. Of course, I lived a sheltered life in a small coal-mining town in Pennsylvania. Maybe the immediacy of getting the gun from the vending machine seems dangerous (you know, crime of passion, before one has collected one's senses, etc.). So, can we actually go back to the good old days? Or has something intrinsically changed in society? I'd rather think it worked just fine back then, everything that has changed has been for the worse.
I believe you haven't noticed that the world has changed since we were all young. I also lived through a era when as a grade school kid, I could have lied about my age and, if I had the money bought almost any kind of firearm (except full auto) and ammo through the US Mail. But for some reason we seem to have a much greater number of murderous, criminally inclined and just plain evil people out in society.
Now maybe one answer to dealing with those criminal people is to arm every good and decent person and have them deal with the crazies as they encounter them. But until that is tried and it works, then the only alternative is to at least NOT let just anyone who wants a gun to walk into the local drug store and purchase one. At the very least try and force those crazies to have to put some time, work and effort in order to find a gun. And, when and if they are caught with that gun, then they would automatically be arrested and taken off the street.0 -
I believe you haven't noticed that the world has changed since we were all young. I also lived through a era when as a grade school kid, I could have lied about my age and, if I had the money bought almost any kind of firearm (except full auto) and ammo through the US Mail. But for some reason we seem to have a much greater number of murderous, criminally inclined and just plain evil people out in society.
Fox, you are partially right. We do have a larger number but I doubt any larger percentage. What we do have is a culture change from those who are personally responsible - to those who say "...it's not my fault, they caused me to do this..." or "...let the government take care of it..."
Now maybe one answer to dealing with those criminal people is to arm every good and decent person and have them deal with the crazies as they encounter them. But until that is tried and it works, then the only alternative is to at least NOT let just anyone who wants a gun to walk into the local drug store and purchase one. At the very least try and force those crazies to have to put some time, work and effort in order to find a gun. And, when and if they are caught with that gun, then they would automatically be arrested and taken off the street
It has been tried and was extremely successful. Even during the days of the "wild west" or the early days of the Yukon, people stood for their principles and your "crazies" were dealt with by the Darwinian principle. Stupid hurts and sometimes permanently.
The most gentile time in our U.S. history is the 1930's as many carried and you never knew what someone else was carrying. This unarmed "civilized society" we have now propagates the boldness of the druggies or crazies. Look at Fort Hood for an example. It's a shame that on a military base of that size, it took so long for someone to show up carrying a weapon. When a crazy knows there is no one to fight back, they are emboldened to higher levels.
All the trouble you talked about going through to get the weapons... DOES NOT APPLY to criminals or crazies. In case you don't realize it, they don't do the paperwork, or the thumbprint, or anything. So what does it accomplish? Nothing more than generate the time, work and effort consuming records for law abiding citizens. Like I said, nothing of value.0 -
funny how kids started becoming killers right about the same time that they started listening to rap, learning of the ability to jail a parent for using a belt to punish them, learning that most citizens are, by law, unable to carry a firearm to protect themselves, and learning that there was no chance of actually being put to death for any crime they commit.
from what i remember, first i learned to fear my dad, as he was the one with the belt. the principal had the paddle. that was scary, too.
after fear, i learned about the concept of respect.
these days, the kid won't get a good beating until he's old enough to get one from his peers, and the lesson of respect is often lost at that point.
regardless of any of that, the right of a citizen to purchase what they want, when they want is NOT to be infringed.
not because there's crazies amongst us, not because of the bleeding hearts who'd rather rehab a murderer or pedophile than execute them, not because we as a society have become to chickenfooey to offend anyone by not being politically correct, and instead are accepting the millions of illegal criminals who invade our country each year and breed gangster punks with entitlement complexes.
yes, it has to stop, but not by limiting my or any other legal citizen's rights.
if liberals want to fix the problem of this eroding morality, they need to sack up and grow a set, do what needs to be done with the criminals, deport those who have come here illegally (and their future ms13 offspring), and let parents raise their kids without getting sent to jail for giving them an ass whoopin'.
just sayin'.0 -
quote:Originally posted by COBmmcmss
I believe you haven't noticed that the world has changed since we were all young. I also lived through a era when as a grade school kid, I could have lied about my age and, if I had the money bought almost any kind of firearm (except full auto) and ammo through the US Mail. But for some reason we seem to have a much greater number of murderous, criminally inclined and just plain evil people out in society.
Fox, you are partially right. We do have a larger number but I doubt any larger percentage. What we do have is a culture change from those who are personally responsible - to those who say "...it's not my fault, they caused me to do this..." or "...let the government take care of it..."
Now maybe one answer to dealing with those criminal people is to arm every good and decent person and have them deal with the crazies as they encounter them. But until that is tried and it works, then the only alternative is to at least NOT let just anyone who wants a gun to walk into the local drug store and purchase one. At the very least try and force those crazies to have to put some time, work and effort in order to find a gun. And, when and if they are caught with that gun, then they would automatically be arrested and taken off the street
It has been tried and was extremely successful. Even during the days of the "wild west" or the early days of the Yukon, people stood for their principles and your "crazies" were dealt with by the Darwinian principle. Stupid hurts and sometimes permanently.
The most gentile time in our U.S. history is the 1930's as many carried and you never knew what someone else was carrying. This unarmed "civilized society" we have now propagates the boldness of the druggies or crazies. Look at Fort Hood for an example. It's a shame that on a military base of that size, it took so long for someone to show up carrying a weapon. When a crazy knows there is no one to fight back, they are emboldened to higher levels.
All the trouble you talked about going through to get the weapons... DOES NOT APPLY to criminals or crazies. In case you don't realize it, they don't do the paperwork, or the thumbprint, or anything. So what does it accomplish? Nothing more than generate the time, work and effort consuming records for law abiding citizens. Like I said, nothing of value.
You are missing the value of having at least some laws/rules on firearm purchases, carrying, ownership, etc. The value is NOT in attempting to place paperwork, etc. barriers in the way of the criminals wanting to illegally obtain a firearm. Everybody knows that we have laws against importing illegal drugs, illegal aliens, etc., yet that does not prevent people from going ahead and doing it. So of course the same is true regardless of what guns laws might be put in place.
But here is where the IS some value in those laws and barriers. When the criminally inclined go ahead and obtain a firearm illegally, at least when they are noticed they and their illegally obtained firearm will be taken off the street. In addition, the gun laws frankly do worry some people in that they fear breaking those laws by illegally providing firearms to people who cannot legally own them. In addition, I believe there might even be a small number of the criminally inclined that decided to not risk additional prison time, when they commit their crimes, by illegally obtaining, carrying or using a gun.
So, without any gun control laws at all, a 10 year old child who obtained the money (stole it from parents, borrowed credit card, etc.) could purchase a handgun from a vending machine in your full view. Yet you would have no legal justification to do one damn thing about it (there would be no gun laws, remember?) nor would it do any good to notify anyone (maybe the kids parents if you knew who/where they were) because what could law enforcement do about a 10 year old buying/carrying a gun? No gun laws, remember?
The same thing is true if you observe a known violent criminal buying a handgun from a vending machine. What could you do about it? Nothing. No gun laws remember?
I think it is foolish to advocate for absolutely no gun laws. If you do so advocate, then one thing you are advocating for is someone selling guns from a vending machine and that is just plain crazy.0 -
quote:Originally posted by ringchild
funny how kids started becoming killers right about the same time that they started listening to rap, learning of the ability to jail a parent for using a belt to punish them, learning that most citizens are, by law, unable to carry a firearm to protect themselves, and learning that there was no chance of actually being put to death for any crime they commit.
from what i remember, first i learned to fear my dad, as he was the one with the belt. the principal had the paddle. that was scary, too.
after fear, i learned about the concept of respect.
these days, the kid won't get a good beating until he's old enough to get one from his peers, and the lesson of respect is often lost at that point.
regardless of any of that, the right of a citizen to purchase what they want, when they want is NOT to be infringed.
not because there's crazies amongst us, not because of the bleeding hearts who'd rather rehab a murderer or pedophile than execute them, not because we as a society have become to chickenfooey to offend anyone by not being politically correct, and instead are accepting the millions of illegal criminals who invade our country each year and breed gangster punks with entitlement complexes.
yes, it has to stop, but not by limiting my or any other legal citizen's rights.
if liberals want to fix the problem of this eroding morality, they need to sack up and grow a set, do what needs to be done with the criminals, deport those who have come here illegally (and their future ms13 offspring), and let parents raise their kids without getting sent to jail for giving them an ass whoopin'.
just sayin'.
So do you favor selling firearms from vending machines? Yes or no please.0 -
What you fail to recognize is that there is no value in some laws on guns. I already stated I'm in favor and would be first in line if you were to provide a vending machine (of course for a reasonable price).
It's not crazy, it's reality. Your vending machine analogy is exactly what happens for criminals with guns. If you haven't already bought something on the black market, ask a local cop and they'll describe the process to you. It's VERY close to your vending machine question... just without the glass. Wake up.0 -
TR - Do you favor laws forcing people to go through an ffl for private sells? 0 -
quote:Originally posted by tr fox
.
So do you favor selling firearms from vending machines? Yes or no please.
have i been unclear?
YES(as long as they're packaged to prevent scuffing when they drop into the pickup slot).
now....
do you favor making law abiding american citizens pay for the crimes of others by unconstitutionally limiting their access to firearms?0
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