Can an employer fire you ????
Question is: Can an employer fire you for having a legally stored firearm in your vehicle in the parking lot at work???They just handed out a new company policy stating "no firearms on the premises".I am in Pennsylvania if it matters.
0
-
A simple hypothetical, since we are talking about the BOR, particularly Amendment II.
You are the private owner of a business with a lot, owned by you, immediately adjacent. The public is allowed to come and go onto and off of your property, under the implied business/commerce contract that exists, since you are selling 'something'.
A group of mopes decides that they want to stand on your lot, out of the way of any patrons, and stage a protest in support of gun prohibition and communism, under the color of Amendment I.
For those who say the private citizen, who is also the property owner, has no say in prohibiting your ability to protest or display their 'freedom of speech', is not defensible.
Limitations and prohibitions are placed on government, related to suppression of individual liberties.
A private property owner is the one who is master of what occurs on his private property.
Now, the argument, in my mind, comes down to obedience to that property owner and what consequences there are for a willful deviation from the property owners dictate. I stay armed when outside the home, always.
A classic conflict of another individual's 'general right' to dictate and my specific right and decision to remain armed.0 -
quote:Originally posted by Mr. Friendly
It amazes me that this would even be a discussion with individualists.
Private property, you have no say in what they allow on/off property. This is like saying you should be allowed to bring booze, or drugs to work.
If I have lawnwork done, and tell you not to use a riding mower, push mower only, don't tell me you think you have the right to tell me you're using a rider anyway. If you do not like the rules on the private property you avaoid it. Period
Why would individualists not be upset at having their rights trampled by another citizens. Legal firearms posession and drug posession are completely different.0 -
quote:Originally posted by jpwolf
quote:Originally posted by Mr. Friendly
It amazes me that this would even be a discussion with individualists.
Private property, you have no say in what they allow on/off property. This is like saying you should be allowed to bring booze, or drugs to work.
If I have lawnwork done, and tell you not to use a riding mower, push mower only, don't tell me you think you have the right to tell me you're using a rider anyway. If you do not like the rules on the private property you avaoid it. Period
Why would individualists not be upset at having their rights trampled by another citizens. Legal firearms posession and drug posession are completely different.
You're looking at this incorrectly. No individual citizen can violate your rights by prohibiting behavior on their property, because you have no rights on their property, you have privilages. Just as you would not allow me to smoke in your house, others prohibit certain behavior in theirs. A business also has the same rights, just as you have thr right not to purchase their product, or frequent their establishments. Rights do not exist on privately owned property, period.0 -
Firedude ;
No disrespect intended..at all.
Merely an interesting discussion that I have had in real life a time or two...and generally resulting in my walking away with the comment.."I will never be visiting you at home"...0 -
quote:Originally posted by Highball
Firedude ;
No disrespect intended..at all.
Never perceived it as such.[;)]
Brother HB.[:)]0 -
quote:Originally posted by Highball
quote:If I have lawnwork done, and tell you not to use a riding mower, push mower only, don't tell me you think you have the right to tell me you're using a rider anyway. If you do not like the rules on the private property you avaoid it. PeriodThe problem, of course ;
We are not discussing lawnmowers, or tulips, or color of drapes.
We are discussing personal safety, and the safety of other people when an armed, decent man IS armed ..even when the means is in a vehicle many yards away.
Perhaps you that insist upon personal property rights (a powerful argument) will also be willing to allow an injured individual the power to sue the business owner for his last penny...because the owner took away the means of self-defense for said individual ? Even if the individual AGREES with the `contract' in order to find a job..that should never nullify the basic Right of preservation of human life.
I know how I handled it for many years ;
My safety trumped the businessman's phobia.
No sir, I do not believe in the argument that one has the right to sue in such an instence. Every person makes their own decisions in this life. The only person who is responsible for the actions of a deginerate who is hell bent on harming others is that individual. If I decide you cannot go armed on my property, you agree to such terms and are eating ribs on my patio when some idiot shoots you, it is not my fault anymore than yours. You knew my terms prior to sitting down at my table, and upon agreeing upon them you assume the risks that stem from this decision. The only person you should have any legal recourse against would be the shooter, bot the property owner. When you agree to terms that violate your own personal beliefs that should throw the first red flag, and weigh heavily on your decision.0 -
quote:Originally posted by 4406v
Question is: Can an employer fire you for having a legally stored firearm in your vehicle in the parking lot at work???They just handed out a new company policy stating "no firearms on the premises".I am in Pennsylvania if it matters.
After reading all the post's I see JP's and others view and they make sense. I also see the property owner's or employers side.
Think about this because this is how it works I don't like it nor is it fair because the current laws put the property owner at risk should someone get angry, run out to their car run back into the business and start blasting every one.
Argument can be made that if people had guns they could have stopped him but you know whats going to happen? The company owner is going to be dragged to court and spend thousand of dollars to all the dead peoples families because he did not give notice to all employee's that guns are not permitted on his property.
Its not right! you and I know that just as we knew OJ should not have walked but this is what has happened to society. They sue the gun manufacturers when someone gets shot.
I think if you really knew the company owner he probably loves guns and hates to have to give out this notice to people but if he did not he would be liable if one of his employee's went nuts in the parking lot and started shooting. Again I don't agree with what the employer is doing but I see why.
Society has become a blame some one else for the bad deeds of others! its called socialism and that is why this country is so screwed up.
Kalifoolian is the worst! When you purchase a firearm here you have to bring a gun lock with you to pick it up and sign a statement it will be locked in a safe place or in a Guns safe. Why?
Because some kids stole their fathers guns went to school and killed some kids. If a minor breaks into my house and steals my gun and uses it in a crime Because I did not have it locked in a gun safe or locked with a gun lock, I could be fined or even go to prison. So now its my fault right! I say hell no! But that's the Law hear in California and it suck's big time!.
This country is full of nuts and every year it gets worse. They want to blame everyone for someone else's bad deeds.
There is no such thing as taking responsibility or making one pay for their actions anymore and that is why the company owner is covering his behind.
Your rights can not impose on his and you also have a right not to work there. When you reach the point that your rights impose on the rights others and is greater than others you have become a Tyrant.
You chose to work for this Company Owner he has a right to say no Guns on his property! That is his right. You can follow the rule or not follow the rule that is your chose.
If you do not follow the rule and get fired because you got caught! then accept the fact that you are responsible for breaking the rule and suffer the consequences.0 -
If it's in the car why would your employer have the ability to ever see what is in your car? I've worked with some people that I wouldn't like to think of as having a gun out in their car.
Does the company have the right, they have the right to do whatever they want on the premises that they own. You do have the right in this free country to do other things like refuse to work under that kind of control or my personal favorite, start your own company and then you can be as liberal or as controlling to your employees as you want.
I've had a few companies, my favorite conversations were those that involved hearing an employee telling me what I could or could not legally do. I've had a few laughs and asked those making bold statements like that to my face if they wanted to see me let them go because I didn't like the way they were talking to me. Just the straight up question "do you want to see me let you go because I don't like the tone of your voice?" I've asked it just like that and invariably got an apology and a much more deferential attitude. It was fairly clear that I was prepared to do exactly what I was asking about. I've always said that I do not need a reason to let someone go if I don't like anything about them or the job they are doing.
It has always been my premise that certain businesses have jobs that are highly sensitive to being representative of the owner and how the business will be run. I fired a customer service person because they were abrasive and lacked diplomatic skills. That would have been an unappropriate reason in other positions but their personality was a direct reflection of my business. It had it's humor when I was asked by the person for an explanation and told them I didn't like their attitude.0 -
I'm sorry, gun? What gun?[;)] 0 -
As long as you are not caught they can not fire you for it. They can not search your vehicle either in a publicly accessable parking lot. If its a secure area they can search your vehicle upon entry, and require you to pass through a metal detector upon entry. They are not the police, they can not physically search you, and they can not search your car in any publicly accessable parking lot. If they do they are violating your rights to privacy and may be sued, and if you were fired they may be forced to give you your job back with back pay, and any promotions you may have received. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by 4406v
Question is: Can an employer fire you for having a legally stored firearm in your vehicle in the parking lot at work???They just handed out a new company policy stating "no firearms on the premises".I am in Pennsylvania if it matters.
This is an on-going battle at the moment, think FL is on the forefront of the battle. Expect restrictions to be left in place. That said, what the heck happened to "innocent until proven guilty" and minding one's own business? Today the lawyers have us all liability paraniod and risk intolerant, an UNACCEPTABLE situation.0
Please sign in to leave a comment.
Comments
41 comments