appraisal info
I have associate that states he has a shotgun from the ST. Valentines day massacre, anyone have any ideas on where to get it appraise in the mid west.
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You might try Supica in the KC area: http://www.armchairgunshow.com/ 0 -
Well, he could certainly talk to the folks at Bonham's & Butterfield auction house in San Francisco, but......I see a couple of problems that might make them, or any other experts, a little skeptical.
First, all the movies of that event that I have seen show the gangsters using .45 Thompson submachine guns. But, that may just be Hollywood, so I can't be sure. All I know is, contemporary photos of the event show a lot of large holes in the victims.
Second, documenting that a particular firearm was used in the massacre would have to be pretty convincing. All present that day were either 1) live felons, or 2) dead felons. Maybe if your friend has video tape of the event, with the camera zooming in on the shotgun in question, & tight enough that you can make out the serial number.
You see where I'm going? Without documentation, which, in this case, would be just about impossible, your friend has just another shotgun with a story.
Neal0 -
Neal is absolutely correct. I assume he has convincing documentation, not just the story which he heard when he bought the gun. If it is not written testimony from a participant, but only a story told, it means nothing to the value of the shotgun. 0 -
How do you know the gun was at the Shooting?
I WOULD RATHER BE DUCK HUNTING.0 -
There is all sorts of factual documentation on the event as well as photographic evidence and the Chicago police went to great lengths to reconstruct the entire event. Although there were no living eye witnesses present (not including Tony Curtis and Jack Lemon), a Mrs. Josephine Morin told police that she had seen four men being lead into the garage by "policemen" who pointed shotguns at them. After the killings Mrs. Janet Landesman telephoned tht 36th District Hudson Avenue police station to report what she beleived to be a shooting. When the police eventually entered the SMC Cartage Company garage on North Clark Street they discoverd the bodies of the six victims, seventy spent .45 ACP cases and two 12 gauge shotgun shells. Although a Model 1921AC (#7580) and Model 1921A (#2347) Thompson submachineguns were eventually recovered, traced and ballistically linked to the killings I was unaware that the shotgun was ever recovered, nor have I ever been able to learn much about it. What type of shotgun does your associate have which he claims was used in the shooting? Only two spent 12 gauge shells were found at the scene so this has lead to quite a bit of speculation as to what type/make/model was involved.
"Nothing can ever be made 'idiot proof' because idiots are simply too clever"!
Mark T. Christian0 -
Thanks gentlemen, The party i am associated with has a ithaca that was handed down from a family member on i beleive he told me his wifes side of the family. The family member was a participant so i am told so i am helping him try to get a value. 0 -
I am with nmyers on this one, except that I would be a little skeptical about using the movies as a guide.
It would be great, in my mind, if, after authentication, this could be sold to a museum. It would represent a significant archive of Americana.
A good thead. I HOPE:
A. It is authentic, and
B. You can prove it!
GOOD LUCK!
Sako Fan0 -
Well, you've really got our interest. Will you answer the most important question for us? What documentation do you have?
Many guns handed down through a family have had their history embellished; research often proves that these stories are factually impossible. Except, of course, for my M1 carbine that was carried by Gen. McArthur in WWII.
The funny thing is, even with incontrovertible documentation, no one is going to be able to give you an accurate appraisal. This is a unique item; who knows how much it would be worth? How much would Jack Ruby's .38 revolver sell for? (Do any of you young whippersnappers even know who Jack Ruby IS?) Even the top auction houses are often WAY off in their estimates, & they do this sort of thing for a living.
Neal0 -
To my knowledge there isnt any documentation, it is word passed down from family. if i understood it correctly it is a grandfather that participated in the event, i am leery about sayin too much do to the political climate here, it may be paranoid but i think the city of chicago may attempt to lay claim due to historical value and destroy the item and we would all loose 0 -
Most movies show the .45's being used in the beginning but then a double barrel shotgun is used at the end - "just to make sure".
Warmaster0
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