California AP Ammo?
I was wondering if AP Rifle ammo was illegal in california. There are many websites who sell SS109 in .223 that ship to Cali.
I poked around on the Cali DOJ website and the only mention I can find is that handgun AP ammo is illegal. Doesn't mention rifle ammo as far as I can tell.
Any thoughts?
"It amazes me, the will of instinct."
I poked around on the Cali DOJ website and the only mention I can find is that handgun AP ammo is illegal. Doesn't mention rifle ammo as far as I can tell.
Any thoughts?
"It amazes me, the will of instinct."
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I don't know the precise answer to your question, but I watched a friend of mine put a clean hole through 1/4 inch steel plate using a Mini 14 in .223 with factory Wolf ammo.
He likes to shoot cheap stuff, wasn't turned off by the general hatred of Wolf and the commonly held belief that Wolf brand ammo has corrosive combustion by-products.
The steel plate was a target that withstood lots of hits from an AR15 firing normal target .223 ammo, and the non-Wolf ammo didn't even dimple the plate. The Wolf ammo in a mini 14 just went straight through it like it was paper. I don't think Wolf is considered AP, and don't know how thick of a steel plate it can handle, but I thought this might interest you, especially as Wolf is dirt cheap and readily available in CA. Keep in mind most folks I know won't put it through their guns for fear of corrosion, though I don't know if this is truth or myth.
http://ynot4free.com0 -
I have a mini 14 and wolf ammo is just abuot all I shoot through it because it is powerful and very reliable. The most important thing is to make sure you take proper care of your firearms.Then you wont eaven have to worry about it.By the way I agree wolf ammo packs quite a PUNCH! even in their hand gun ammo.(yes I do sometimes use it in my 9mm oops!)
AC Tactical0 -
AP ammo is off limits unless your a LEO or military member in occupied territory. Heck you guys can't even own nightvision scopes. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by Red223
AP ammo is off limits unless your a LEO or military member in occupied territory. Heck you guys can't even own nightvision scopes.
Not true. Same restrictions as Federal on AP ammo for handuns. Also, there is no restriction on nightvision scopes. Only on those that use infrared projection.0 -
I'm not sure what you guys are referring to as far as AP ammo goes, but I thought I would interject my three cents worth about Wolf Ammo. I have shot it for quite a while now, in everything from 1911A1 pistols to 7.62X39 AK's, to anything else you can think of that they load ammo for. And I have never had any problems what so ever with any of it. Of course it goes without saying that you have to clean you firearms every time you use them. And that should be the standard rule of thumb anyway!
BigBarn[:o)]
"Respect the land, and it will respect you"0 -
quote:Not true. Same restrictions as Federal on AP ammo for handuns. Also, there is no restriction on nightvision scopes. Only on those that use infrared projection.
So you read it the same way I do...
AP Handgun ammo is illegal, whereas AP rifle ammo is okay?
"It amazes me, the will of instinct."0 -
quote:Originally posted by dave1387
quote:Not true. Same restrictions as Federal on AP ammo for handuns. Also, there is no restriction on nightvision scopes. Only on those that use infrared projection.
So you read it the same way I do...
AP Handgun ammo is illegal, whereas AP rifle ammo is okay?
"It amazes me, the will of instinct."
Yes, but watch out for what is considered handgun ammo. I believe the actual phrase in the regulation is on the order of ammunition that can be fired from a handgun. Thanks to Thompson-Center, there is a lot of rifle ammunition that can be fired from a handgun.0 -
If you scroll down to 12323(a), it defines "Handgun Ammo" as ammo designed primarily to be fired from a handgun. The way I read this, 223, etc should be legal as it is primarily a rifle cartridge. Even tho TC makes the handgun version. I hate lawyering...
From the California Penal Code:
12320. Any person, firm, or corporation who, within this state knowingly possesses any handgun ammunition designed primarily to penetrate metal or armor is guilty of a public offense and upon conviction thereof shall be punished by imprisonment in the state prison or in the county jail for a term not to exceed one year, or by a fine not to exceed five thousand dollars ($5,000), or by both such fine and imprisonment.
12321. Any person, firm, or corporation who, within this state, manufactures, imports, sells, offers to sell, or knowingly transports any handgun ammunition designed primarily to penetrate metal or armor is guilty of a felony and upon conviction thereof shall be punished by imprisonment in state prison, or by a fine not to exceed five thousand dollars ($5,000), or by both such fine and imprisonment.
12322. Nothing in this chapter shall apply to or affect either of the following:
(a) The sale to, purchase by, possession of, or use of any ammunition by any member of the Army, Navy, Air Force, or Marine Corps of the United States, or the National Guard, while on duty and acting within the scope and course of his or her employment, or any police agency or forensic laboratory or any person who is the holder of a valid permit issued pursuant to Section 12305.
(b) The possession of handgun ammunition designed primarily to penetrate metal or armor by a person who found the ammunition, if he or she is not prohibited from possessing firearms or ammunition pursuant to Section 12021, 12021.1, or paragraph (1) of subdivision (b) of Section 12316 of this code or Section 8100 or 8103 of the Welfare and Institutions Code and is transporting the ammunition to a law enforcement agency for disposition according to law.
12323. As used in this chapter, the following definitions shall apply:
(a) "Handgun ammunition" means ammunition principally for use in pistols, revolvers, and other firearms capable of being concealed upon the person, as defined in subdivision (a) of Section 12001, notwithstanding that the ammunition may also be used in some rifles.
(b) "Handgun ammunition designed primarily to penetrate metal or armor" means any ammunition, except a shotgun shell or ammunition primarily designed for use in rifles, that is designed primarily to penetrate a body vest or body shield, and has either of the following characteristics:
(1) Has projectile or projectile core constructed entirely, excluding the presence of traces of other substances, from one or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium, or any equivalent material of similar density or hardness.
(2) Is primarily manufactured or designed, by virtue of its shape, cross-sectional density, or any coating applied thereto, including, but not limited to, ammunition commonly known as "KTW ammunition," to breach or penetrate a body vest or body shield when fired from a pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person.
(c) "Body vest or shield" means any bullet-resistant material intended to provide ballistic and trauma protection for the wearer or holder.
(d) "Rifle" shall have the same meaning as defined in paragraph (20) of subdivision (c) of Section 12020.
"It amazes me, the will of instinct."0 -
quote:Originally posted by kalifornian
I don't know the precise answer to your question, but I watched a friend of mine put a clean hole through 1/4 inch steel plate using a Mini 14 in .223 with factory Wolf ammo.
He likes to shoot cheap stuff, wasn't turned off by the general hatred of Wolf and the commonly held belief that Wolf brand ammo has corrosive combustion by-products.
The steel plate was a target that withstood lots of hits from an AR15 firing normal target .223 ammo, and the non-Wolf ammo didn't even dimple the plate. The Wolf ammo in a mini 14 just went straight through it like it was paper. I don't think Wolf is considered AP, and don't know how thick of a steel plate it can handle, but I thought this might interest you, especially as Wolf is dirt cheap and readily available in CA. Keep in mind most folks I know won't put it through their guns for fear of corrosion, though I don't know if this is truth or myth.
http://ynot4free.com
Your normal target ammo must be insanely week. real FMJ 55 grain .223 with a full powder charge will blow thru 1/4 of steel no problem.
I've tested a variety of .223 FMJ and i'd have to say that the wolf is one of the weakest as for pentrating steel of any of them. The copper jacket is very thin and they don't go quite as fast as full load .223. I've tested maybe 10 different kinds of .223 on a 3/8ths plate. SS109 almost makes it thru, the wolf don't even come close. Every .223 I've ever tested will go thru 1/4 inch steel.0 -
quote:Originally posted by EOD Guy
quote:Originally posted by Red223
AP ammo is off limits unless your a LEO or military member in occupied territory. Heck you guys can't even own nightvision scopes.
Not true. Same restrictions as Federal on AP ammo for handuns. Also, there is no restriction on nightvision scopes. Only on those that use infrared projection.
EOD guy is correct.0 -
quote:Originally posted by dave1387
If you scroll down to 12323(a), it defines "Handgun Ammo" as ammo designed primarily to be fired from a handgun. The way I read this, 223, etc should be legal as it is primarily a rifle cartridge. Even tho TC makes the handgun version. I hate lawyering...
From the California Penal Code:
12320. Any person, firm, or corporation who, within this state knowingly possesses any handgun ammunition designed primarily to penetrate metal or armor is guilty of a public offense and upon conviction thereof shall be punished by imprisonment in the state prison or in the county jail for a term not to exceed one year, or by a fine not to exceed five thousand dollars ($5,000), or by both such fine and imprisonment.
12321. Any person, firm, or corporation who, within this state, manufactures, imports, sells, offers to sell, or knowingly transports any handgun ammunition designed primarily to penetrate metal or armor is guilty of a felony and upon conviction thereof shall be punished by imprisonment in state prison, or by a fine not to exceed five thousand dollars ($5,000), or by both such fine and imprisonment.
12322. Nothing in this chapter shall apply to or affect either of the following:
(a) The sale to, purchase by, possession of, or use of any ammunition by any member of the Army, Navy, Air Force, or Marine Corps of the United States, or the National Guard, while on duty and acting within the scope and course of his or her employment, or any police agency or forensic laboratory or any person who is the holder of a valid permit issued pursuant to Section 12305.
(b) The possession of handgun ammunition designed primarily to penetrate metal or armor by a person who found the ammunition, if he or she is not prohibited from possessing firearms or ammunition pursuant to Section 12021, 12021.1, or paragraph (1) of subdivision (b) of Section 12316 of this code or Section 8100 or 8103 of the Welfare and Institutions Code and is transporting the ammunition to a law enforcement agency for disposition according to law.
12323. As used in this chapter, the following definitions shall apply:
(a) "Handgun ammunition" means ammunition principally for use in pistols, revolvers, and other firearms capable of being concealed upon the person, as defined in subdivision (a) of Section 12001, notwithstanding that the ammunition may also be used in some rifles.
(b) "Handgun ammunition designed primarily to penetrate metal or armor" means any ammunition, except a shotgun shell or ammunition primarily designed for use in rifles, that is designed primarily to penetrate a body vest or body shield, and has either of the following characteristics:
(1) Has projectile or projectile core constructed entirely, excluding the presence of traces of other substances, from one or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium, or any equivalent material of similar density or hardness.
(2) Is primarily manufactured or designed, by virtue of its shape, cross-sectional density, or any coating applied thereto, including, but not limited to, ammunition commonly known as "KTW ammunition," to breach or penetrate a body vest or body shield when fired from a pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person.
(c) "Body vest or shield" means any bullet-resistant material intended to provide ballistic and trauma protection for the wearer or holder.
(d) "Rifle" shall have the same meaning as defined in paragraph (20) of subdivision (c) of Section 12020.
"It amazes me, the will of instinct."
I've read it the same way you are Dave for quite awhile. I live in cali and have some SS109, IMO its perfectly legal. funny thing about ss109 is that its not even real AP.
Only the front 40% or so of the bullet has a steel penetrator under the copper jacket, the back part of the bullet is lead filled.0
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