now i am lost...
have only re-loaded straight case pistol ammo for over 20 yrs
now beteen prices and my favorite rifle being obsolete, i not only have to start loading rimed bottleneck cases, ihave to MAKE them?
WOW!
so i have figured out the basics of reloading the PROPER size case, but exactly what am i going to need tool wise for expanding a 220 swift to accept a .308 pill?
it reminds me of the old construction joke about neding a board stretcher, but even aftermarket suppliers are stating their cases are re-formed 220s
now beteen prices and my favorite rifle being obsolete, i not only have to start loading rimed bottleneck cases, ihave to MAKE them?
WOW!
so i have figured out the basics of reloading the PROPER size case, but exactly what am i going to need tool wise for expanding a 220 swift to accept a .308 pill?
it reminds me of the old construction joke about neding a board stretcher, but even aftermarket suppliers are stating their cases are re-formed 220s
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The simplest way is to simply run the swift case into your die (what cartridge?) but that's a fairly large jump
More complex, but not hard is to anneal the neck, than run it over just the expander section of a 6mm than a 7mm die before going into your sizind die. That order may not be exact IE: 6mm expander, anneal, 7mm expander, 308? sizer etc (some experamentation is required)
They do make tapered expanders, which are extactly what they sound like, and are easier to push into the neck than a standard "ball" expander. If you know anyone with a metal lathe, they should be able to make one from a piece of 7/8-14 threaded rod
Another methiod you can try, is to fireform your brass, using 5-10gr of bullseye (experament with the amount) and the neck plugged with wax/soap. Fire them straight up, and let the pressure do most of the forming work. A quick Google on "fireforming" should yield more details if you need them. Some guys use "cream of wheat" to take up the case volume between the powder and the plug.0 -
My gosh! A .30 cal. on a .220 Swift case and you're just now starting to reload for it! It was a wildcat to begin with. What in the world were you shooting in it?! 0 -
Misc information
The 220 Swift is based on the 6mm Lee Navy round, but I'm still wondering what 30 cal round has a base/rim diameter that's compatable with them.
Ambrose
Just because he's using a swift case to make his brass from, dosn't mean he's working on a wildcat, when building brass for a obsolete round you gotta start with something that's available and "close" in the areas that don't take real well to reforming.0 -
He is being coy with us, I guess.
The only things listed in Donnelly as .30 cal made from Swift brass are .303 Savage and 7.62x45 Czech.0 -
And even then for the 7.62X45, it's much easier to start with 6.5 Carcano brass, rough trim, size, and final trim... 0 -
Right!, I never thought of the .303 Savage--that has to be it. "favorite rifle", .30 cal., obsolete, not a wildcat.
Didn't I read somewhere that .303 is being made by Starline or somebody?0 -
thanks guys, and you are good!
yes its for the .303 sav
my all original 99A i got from my grand dad when i was 14
for many years ammo was cheap and plentiful, we never thought about saving brass back then
after a number of years of raising kids and such i got into the pistol thing and used the .357 to hunt, and suddenly realized the .303 ammo was gone [V]
the 220 swift and another (foret the size) 6.5 are the two closest with the swift being slightly closer
now to find $$ for brass, primers...0 -
OM
While not cheap, Quality Cartridge Company makes properly headstamped 303 Savage brass (IIRC it reads "Qual-Cart 303Sav").
Their 2009 catalog lists it at $33.97 for a box of 20 cases (they also list it loaded with various brands of bullets).
I've met the owners at one of the cartridge shows, they seem like a couple of nice fellows.
This won't be reformed brass, but brand new brass that they make themselves.
http://www.qual-cart.com/0 -
bit high priced for an old plow boy, but will check it out
good brass for the old stuff is hard to come by0 -
Norma makes 303 Savage brass. Midway carries it but is currently out.
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=2769430 -
Have you checked the auctions. Some of it is really expensive, but there was one for two boxes of Winchester for around $50/box. It sounds expensive, but with brass going for over $30.00/box, at least you'd could shoot it and then you'd have the empties to reload.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=149714709
Also, you may want to put your request in the 'Want to Buy' forum. Someone may have some they might let go for a little bit less.0 -
What am i missing here,I always thought i would use 30-30 cases if i ran out of 303 as they both are headspaced on the rim,which is the most inportant in my book,I shoot 30-30, 303 and 410 on same gun just changing barrels not headspace as they are the same .063rim.tks hedge[:D] 0 -
quote:Originally posted by hedgehopper62
What am i missing here,I always thought i would use 30-30 cases if i ran out of 303 ........hedge[:D]
The base diameter of the 303 Sav is .020 larger than the 30-30 Win. base dia is.
If you don't mind risking a blowout of the pressure ring, than you could make 30-30 cases work (for a while)0 -
rim dia. for .303 is .501 with a .058 thickness
30-30 is .502 with the same thickness, but the cartridge base is .422 compared to the .439 of the .303
concerned it may be a bit too much to stretch and still be dependable?
Actually there are quite a few that come "close"
Have been checking specs and have a bit of concern with the swift cartridge too as it is a semi-rimmed with the rim specs being .472 dia and only .045 thick
other close ones are 7-30 waters, 30-40 krag, 6.5x52R
a lot of possible options to be checked and tested.
if the base expansion on the 30-30 could be done fire forming and retain enough strength it would be the cheapest, most available idea
would expanding .017 at that point be adviseable?0 -
I do a lot of form firing and feel that the rim thickness on a rim headspaced gun is more critical than other measurements.I do most of my form firing with bullseye and corn meal.will try in spring as im at my winter home.tks hedge[:D] 0 -
another brain fart i had...
is it any help to aneal the base before fire forming to have less chance of stress in the brass?0 -
Do NOT anneal the base.
Doing so will open up a whole can of worms, increased chance of blowout and if it doesn't blow out you'll be sticking cases at starting load levels.0 -
quote:Originally posted by Tailgunner1954
Do NOT anneal the base.
Doing so will open up a whole can of worms, increased chance of blowout and if it doesn't blow out you'll be sticking cases at starting load levels.
that is the kind of info i need to learn
my thinking is mostly related to working steel, needed to know if it would help being softer to form, less stress in the process, or just create a too soft mess later down the road0 -
The steel analogy is a good one, the problem with brass is that there is no practical way to re-harden it.
What softens steel hardens brass (heat with slow cool), what hardens steel softens brass (heat and quench).
With a cartridge case, you are faced with a progressive hardening, that is to say the base is hard (to prevent blowout in the unsupported area), the mouth/shoulders are soft (to provide a gas seal) and the body is between the 2.0 -
as i said, this is the stuff i need to learn
about all i have done with brass to date besides load pistol cartridges, is to use it for inlay and patch-boxes etc
in other words, fancy crap with sheet brass
the only thing i needed to know about it for that was shaping and was the chisel sharp enough to do a clean engraving0 -
Buffalo Arms sells 303 Savage brass. $1.51 per case for Norma and $1.33 per case made from 30-40 Krag brass.
If nothing else, at least now there is a parent brass case you have as a reference if you want to form your own.0
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