.308 reloadong woes
Hey fellas, I seem to be having some problems resizing my .308 brass and hope that some of you guys can help me out. Bear with me if I don't use all the correct terminology: I am still very new to reloading. I have an RCBS relaoder with a Lee die set, the brass is once used .308 caliber of varying manufacturers: federal, american eagle, S&B, remington, the winchester brass I beleive is 7.62x54 and that's about it I think. (I recently read up on the ongoing and ridiculously passionate debate: 308 vs. 7.62x54 - and I don't even want to open that can of worms here - unless it has something to do with my problem) The powder is varget, remington PSP 165gr bullets (I went cheap to start with) and remington primers.
After reading the instructions that came with the Lee die set (resizer) I start the whole process by cleaning the shells and then standing them all upright and spraying some alcohol based cabela's lube in/on the brass and up into the die then begin the resizing. Everything goes pretty smoothly until I come to about every 10th shell and then they get stuck - bad stuck. There is no ryhm or reason to which brand of shells got stuck, or if they are well lubed, wet, dry whatever. They got about 1/2-3/4 of the way into the die and then stop short and won't go in or out. I put upward (outward) pressure on the ram while tapping it with a hammer so as to loosen the shell in the die but not to take the bottom lip off - which happened 9 times out of 10 anyway. I tried relubing after 5-6 shells and tried readjusting the deprimer rod and raising/lowering the whole die in the base (ram, base, whatever you call the thing that you screw the die in the top of) and nothing seems to work. I read how to extract the stuck shells by tapping on top of the deprimer rod (while it's still in the die) and that worked fine until the rod came all the way through the bottom of the last shell I tried to run through it. So now I have to either find someone who knows how to get the shell out without ruining the rod and die, or send it in, or get a new one. They are not that expensive but it's the second one I've bought (I failed to make note of tapping the rod while it's STILL SCREWED INTO THE DIE... I smashed the end of the rod up pretty fast.) I wonder if it has anything to do with the type of lube, maybe the rod needed to be "broken in" I don't know what the problem is. I did manage to fully load 100 shells, which for my second time reloading was a victory in itself. 44gr of powder and a slight crimp, they are beautiful when finished... It's just driving me nuts that I am wrecking every 10th shell and getting them stuck and having to hammer on the top of the deprimer rod and then sticking it through the bottom of the shell and now I can't get the rest of the brass sized, etc, etc, etc... ARGH! Any tips? Thanks for your time, Bill
After reading the instructions that came with the Lee die set (resizer) I start the whole process by cleaning the shells and then standing them all upright and spraying some alcohol based cabela's lube in/on the brass and up into the die then begin the resizing. Everything goes pretty smoothly until I come to about every 10th shell and then they get stuck - bad stuck. There is no ryhm or reason to which brand of shells got stuck, or if they are well lubed, wet, dry whatever. They got about 1/2-3/4 of the way into the die and then stop short and won't go in or out. I put upward (outward) pressure on the ram while tapping it with a hammer so as to loosen the shell in the die but not to take the bottom lip off - which happened 9 times out of 10 anyway. I tried relubing after 5-6 shells and tried readjusting the deprimer rod and raising/lowering the whole die in the base (ram, base, whatever you call the thing that you screw the die in the top of) and nothing seems to work. I read how to extract the stuck shells by tapping on top of the deprimer rod (while it's still in the die) and that worked fine until the rod came all the way through the bottom of the last shell I tried to run through it. So now I have to either find someone who knows how to get the shell out without ruining the rod and die, or send it in, or get a new one. They are not that expensive but it's the second one I've bought (I failed to make note of tapping the rod while it's STILL SCREWED INTO THE DIE... I smashed the end of the rod up pretty fast.) I wonder if it has anything to do with the type of lube, maybe the rod needed to be "broken in" I don't know what the problem is. I did manage to fully load 100 shells, which for my second time reloading was a victory in itself. 44gr of powder and a slight crimp, they are beautiful when finished... It's just driving me nuts that I am wrecking every 10th shell and getting them stuck and having to hammer on the top of the deprimer rod and then sticking it through the bottom of the shell and now I can't get the rest of the brass sized, etc, etc, etc... ARGH! Any tips? Thanks for your time, Bill
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I read and reread your post and have a few suggestions.
First segregate your brass by brand. You said all brands get stuck but this step is important for other reasons.Then size all of only one brand.
Second whatever lube you use-follow the directions.I use Hornady one shot for stuff of known origins (ie My own) but use imperial sizing wax for the tough jobs(Military or gift brass from trusted friends) You said wet or dry they stick. If using a spray lube let it dry or help it dry. Lube all the way down but dont go nuts with any product or other problems can occur. Some will cause shoulder dents, although not likely the spray lube type.
It seems that you do not know the origins of your brass as it is mixed up so I assume that it was not fired from the rifle that you are feeding now. As chambers vary so will your sizing requirements.
Lastly I suggest that you measure the dimensions of a properly sized case to make sure the die is not undersized. I feel this is not very likely as it is working OK sometimes but you never know.
Also 308 is closest to 7.62x 51 NATO which, referring to the can of worms mentioned above, are BASICALLY the same cartridge. You mentioned 7.62x 54(R)-R added by me because of the reference to 54- which is a Russian round.
One other point. You don't say what you will be shooting these out of and although all my books list 44 grains of VARGET as an OK load, with 46 being max, The newest Sierra book stops at 43gr with a 165 gr pill.
Keep us posted.[:)]0 -
B17-P51,
You're right: I meant to say 7.62x51, not 54. My mistake. All the brass I am relaoding was shot from my Rem. 700 or my Springfield M1A - both chambered in .308 and most of these that I do in the begining will be shot from the M1A. As much as I hate to say this if I screw something up I would rather put the shells through my M1A then the 700.
Like I said this is my second time to resize shells and the first time I didn't have this problem at all. I will start arranging my brass by make and look into the wax you spoke of. Thanks for the tips. I have a small manual caliper to measure the shells with but the tick marks it don't go small enough to get an accurate read (it was used by a guy who reloaded pistol exclusively) so I may have to get a different one.
I did some more thinking and I wonder if having the reloader base itself loose is a possible cause. Kind of like stovepiping a pistol because your grip is too loose, could it be that I need to tighten down the base? If that was the reason I would think that all the shells would have had the same problem. Anyway, thanks again for the tips.
Now to get that stuck casing taken care of... any ideas on that by chance?0 -
I have good results with the Lee lube in the toothpaste like tube. It works every time. Your report is typical of insuffient case lube. Not having the press solidly mounted will decrease the force you can apply but if you are pulling the rim off that's not the important issue. Are your cases really clean before lubing? Grit on the cases will scratch the inside of the sizing die and increase the effort required to force the case in and out. I use liquid spray lube on smaller cases but prefer the paste on moderate to large cases. 0 -
I use One Shot also, with good results. Here is a little thing I do before resizing. Get a plastic freezer bag, the regular ones will work, but may leak a little. Take and put say 50 cases in the bag. Spray in the bag liberally, shake and rub all about. Now your cases are lubed. Keep them in the bag until you resize, that way if they dry a little bit you can shake them around again. 0 -
Do you have a tap set? If you do when you stick a case pull the decapping rod out, put the die in a vice, drill the primer hole out and tap it 5/16. Get a nut that goes over the bolt and put a 5/16 washer over it, screw the bolt in the brass and pull the stuck case out. OR buy the RCBS stuck case kit, which is more expencive than a bolt-nut and washer from the store. 0 -
excellent, thank you guys. 0 -
is your press anchored to a secure top? before using that lube be sure to shake it. the spray alcohol lubes have lanolin in them which settles to the bottom. 0 -
Use a number 7 drill and tap it with a 1/4 - 20 tap put washers around the screw and back the case out.Works every time.
Also try the Dillon spray lube.0 -
Stop messing with spray stuff.....get some Imperial sizing wax and NEVER have a stuck case again. 0 -
I have been using the spray pan release(Pam, in the butter formula) for quite awhile now. I haven't seen any problems long term, and I used to have sticking cases in the die all the time. It is cheap, and easy to get. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by BillOrr
B17-P51,
You're right: I meant to say 7.62x51, not 54. My mistake. All the brass I am relaoding was shot from my Rem. 700 or my Springfield M1A - both chambered in .308 and most of these that I do in the begining will be shot from the M1A. As much as I hate to say this if I screw something up I would rather put the shells through my M1A then the 700.
Not to send you into info over load, But at some point you will read about "only neck sizing your brass". In short when you are ready to try it, Neck size only for your Rem 700 and Not for your M1A.
Edit:
In other words Don't try and feed only neck sized brass in your M1A.
as with any semi auto.0 -
I remove the deprimer/case mouth expander and do the resizing and depriming in 2 separates steps. It is much easier for me to pull the occasional stuck case when the deprimer/expander is not in the case. If you can't get the parts mentioned previously RCBS makes a stuck case removal kit that works fine. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by FrancF
quote:Originally posted by BillOrr
B17-P51,
You're right: I meant to say 7.62x51, not 54. My mistake. All the brass I am relaoding was shot from my Rem. 700 or my Springfield M1A - both chambered in .308 and most of these that I do in the begining will be shot from the M1A. As much as I hate to say this if I screw something up I would rather put the shells through my M1A then the 700.
Not to send you into info over load, But at some point you will read about "only neck sizing your brass". In short when you are ready to try it, Neck size only for your Rem 700 and Not for your M1A.
Edit:
In other words Don't try and feed only neck sized brass in your M1A.
as with any semi auto.
So are you saying that I need to make sure my shell length is correct as well? Or is there more that I am missing?
Can I still shoot the ones I loaded? Is there something else I need to do to them before they can be shot from a SA firearm? Now you've got me all worried...0 -
quote:Originally posted by bpost1958
Stop messing with spray stuff.....get some Imperial sizing wax and NEVER have a stuck case again.
What's the procedure for using the wax you speak of?
take a SMALL amount and rub between your fingers, then rub onto the case, size case, wipe off wax after sizing.0 -
quote:Originally posted by BillOrr
quote:Originally posted by FrancF
quote:Originally posted by BillOrr
B17-P51,
You're right: I meant to say 7.62x51, not 54. My mistake. All the brass I am relaoding was shot from my Rem. 700 or my Springfield M1A - both chambered in .308 and most of these that I do in the begining will be shot from the M1A. As much as I hate to say this if I screw something up I would rather put the shells through my M1A then the 700.
Not to send you into info over load, But at some point you will read about "only neck sizing your brass". In short when you are ready to try it, Neck size only for your Rem 700 and Not for your M1A.
Edit:
In other words Don't try and feed only neck sized brass in your M1A.
as with any semi auto.
So are you saying that I need to make sure my shell length is correct as well? Or is there more that I am missing?
Can I still shoot the ones I loaded? Is there something else I need to do to them before they can be shot from a SA firearm? Now you've got me all worried...
Your OK- I gotta run, but will explain later.0 -
Billorr- as far as the wax goes a good rule is you should be able to feel it on the cases but not see any.If you can actually see it you're using too much. A small tin, about 2/3 the size of a shoe polish can will easily last 10,000 rounds. Put it on with your fingers, wipe off when you are done with an alcohol rag. Dont leave any on the cases as they will not grip the chamber properly when fired and will exert excessive pressure on the bolt and gum up crud in an autoloader. As I said before, you will never stick a case with this stuff and it is good for brass of unknown origin. It is a little extra work though. I heard Imperial sold the rights to the product to Hornady or one of the major companys and it it is now marketed under a different name. My tin is so old It says IMPERIAL Sizing die wax. I bought 2 at the time and just opened the second one last year.
Here it is click on the product and read the reviews:
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=519525
Notice the black writing on the can.0 -
thanks so much, you guys are awesome. 0 -
Ok BillOrr
Right now what your doing is full length resizing and that's great it will make your ammo interchangeable between your Rem 700 and M1A.
NECK SIZING what can it do for you and your Rem 700?
This reduces only the diameter of the neck, leaving everything else untouched. This works the brass the least and is the best way to extend the life of your case. You will save some time and lessen the strain on yourself and your equipment. Now the other plus is in bolt guns this can also greatly increase the potential in accuracy.
This is only a tip that I am sure you will pick up down the line and might wish to explore. But if you do try it for your 700 and like the results Don't try it for your M1A.0 -
Thanks for all the tips guys, FrancF: I was way too curious to wait and went and found out what the whole neck sizing thing is all about. I will try it when I am a little more experienced. Also, I don't remember which of you recommended the pam spray but it works like a charm: not a single stuck shell in over 200 rounds. I just hit the inside of a zip-loc with one spray and it was good for 200+ rounds. The way I figure it as long as I wipe it off it shouldn't have any ill effects in the long run. Same as the wax but cheaper and much easier to get. Things are going much smoother, thanks again guys. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by bpost1958
Stop messing with spray stuff.....get some Imperial sizing wax and NEVER have a stuck case again.
Better advice is not to be had0
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