.308 Suggestions, Please
Hello Forum,
I'm getting ready to load 1k of .308 Sierra 168gr. BTHP Match. I intend to use Varget and once-fired Federal Gold Match brass, Winchester WLR primers. Also, I intend to use a crimp die for these because of the semi-auto systems.
I am not shooting in a match, just stock piling for when the SHTF.
My primary rifles are Armalite AR10T and Armalite AR10A4C. Both are 1:11.25 twist. My other .308 is a Savage 10FP, which is 1:10.
What would you suggest as the preferred powder charge with the aforementioned components? Seat depth? for good accuracy out to 600m?
I have been loading for a few years, but have never set out to load at one consistant charge for this amount of rounds. I do not claim to be a pro by any means. Just wanting to get the best load for the money that is already invested.
Many thanks to all replies and my most sincere appreciation to all military personnel.
John[8D]
I'm getting ready to load 1k of .308 Sierra 168gr. BTHP Match. I intend to use Varget and once-fired Federal Gold Match brass, Winchester WLR primers. Also, I intend to use a crimp die for these because of the semi-auto systems.
I am not shooting in a match, just stock piling for when the SHTF.
My primary rifles are Armalite AR10T and Armalite AR10A4C. Both are 1:11.25 twist. My other .308 is a Savage 10FP, which is 1:10.
What would you suggest as the preferred powder charge with the aforementioned components? Seat depth? for good accuracy out to 600m?
I have been loading for a few years, but have never set out to load at one consistant charge for this amount of rounds. I do not claim to be a pro by any means. Just wanting to get the best load for the money that is already invested.
Many thanks to all replies and my most sincere appreciation to all military personnel.
John[8D]
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Are you sure you want to crimp a bullet without a cannelure? I was always told that was a bad thing. I would like to know what others have to say. 0 -
I assume that you are using small base dies.?.? I would suggest using mil-spec primers to help prevent slam-fires...but that issue is debatable. I do know that the CCI mil-spec primers are slightly harder and have a different angled anvil to help make them less sensitive to the slam fire problem in semi autos.
I'm getting ready to load up a bunch myself.0 -
Thanks for bringing the non-cannelure bullet to my attention. I won't be crimping these rounds. And, to Mr. ECC, I was unaware of the slam-fire problem. My only drawback is that I've bought a slew of these Winchester WLR primers and thought it would be good to use them up.
I'll be assembling a few of these today and will go the range Monday to see how they perform before making any more.
Thanks very much.
John0 -
The CCI #34 primers are not only harder they are considerably "hotter" than normal and I use them but never with a stick powder.
How hot are they??
BL-C-(2) load data in the Speer manual states using a unspecified LR magnum primer and 40gr powder with a 308 150gr FMJBT the velocity would be 2372FPS
Using the #34 primer with BL-C-(2) at 38.75gr I am getting 2500FPS.
I have never had slam fires with Winchester primers but anything is possible.
Federal are softer so I prefer not to use them in semi-autos but other use them with no problem.
As for crimping I suggest ten round test before doing the entire run. Crimp as much as you have to and no more.
Anything slightly too much will dent the bullet at the place most critical to stability and unstable bullets tend to be inaccurate to say the least.
Don't do the batch until your test have confirmed they work as they should.
Wulfmann0 -
I should also mention AR-10s has a tendency to tear up softer brass such as Federal and military brass holds up much better.
One person I know says his AR-10 destroys Federal and they are unusable after one firing.
Maybe an odd case, don't know but make sure you test for pressure as well.
Commercial cases loaded to higher commercial pressures do not function well in an AR-10 and they were not meant to.
There is a difference ion 7.62X51 NATO and 308 Winchester ammunition loads.
Wulfmann0 -
While you can use Military primers and they are different I have never used them.
I have used the standard CCI primers in thousands of loads that have been shot through military style semi auto gun and never had a problem.0 -
My Lynam 48th has a table comparing the effects of primers. Between the Winchester WLR and CCI 34 primers, the CCI is 700 psi higher and the velocity is 6 feet per second higher compared to the WLR. Under the table they state that they used the exact 308 load and only changed the primer. I don't doubt Wulfmann's findings, just thought I would throw it out FYI. 0 -
So, is the decision to use WLR primers a bad one? My Lyman is the 47th edition. I thought I'd use 44gr. Varget with the WLR bits. I'm looking at the Hodgdon tables for this load and 44gr. is middle of the road.
Yes, the Armalites are rough on brass. The once-fired Federal Gold Match cases are all from my Savage bolt gun. I have a 5 gallon bucket full of them, so I thought I'd use those for this 'experiment'.
The only other brass I have for .308 is Hirtenburger. I might have 200 of those.
I'm hoping not to start a fire with my inquiry here. However, I am grateful for all the input submitted.
I have not assembled the first round yet. I wanted to see what you guys had to say before I wasted hard earned $$ on foolishness.
Many thanks to all.
John0 -
I use both military and standard primers for battle guns. Either will do as long as you seat the primer a thousandth or two below the top of the pocket which is easily felt with your finger. This is MANDATORY to prevent slam fires and far more important than what type or brand of primer is used. I almost always crush fit primers but the hardness of the cup with the military primers usually prevents this on a progressive press. Mine just doesn't quite have the leverage of the ol' rock chucker. The only way I have found around it is to re-cut the pockets but that is a pita when wanting to load 1000 rounds.
Also, very good advice about trying a small batch (in each gun) before you run the whole 1000. I have a well used bullet puller to prove it.0 -
My advice is to work up a load for each rifle first. Just like swill said, pulling bullets is no fun![xx(] And neither is having a load shoot wonderfully in one rifle and the size of a pie plate in another. I currently have a Mod70,AR-10, and M1A and neither of them like the same loads(bullets, powders, charges, or primers). In my M1A and AR-10 I use WLR primers, have never had a slam-fire yet, keyword, YET! That doesn't mean it will never happen. CCI mil-spec primers are a better choice for the auto-loaders but there is still always a chance.
As far as crimping, this is a subject that is always heavily debated! I do crimp for my auto-loaders, but I use a Lee Factory Crimp Die. A collet style crimp die increases neck tension instead of crimping the case mouth into the bullet which can severely effect accuracy. Also with a collet style crimp die, trim length does not have to be perfect for every case.
Hope I could help out a little.
Good Luck and Good Shooting!
Jeremy T0 -
I see that no one has touched on C.O.L. (seat depth) (case overall length) I have several rifles that I reload for and to take someone elses C.O.L. may result in the use of swill's bullet puller. there are a few ways to measure your case overall length I prefer to use a gauge but you can accuratly measure this by putting a slight crimp on a spent case from your rifle. that will hold the bullet that you are going to reload with !!!!!! semi tightly. using a sharpie or similar marker color the bullet and press it into the blank casing you should be able to do this with your fingers (with not alot of effort) place the round into your action and bring the bolt forward and lock the bolt lug into place. open the chamber and remove the round be careful to not let it hit the floor. if the bullet remains seated in the lands use a cleaning rod to push it free. now re insert the bullt into the casing to the point that the marker was worn of and measure the dummy round. this is your max C.O.L. I prefer to reduce this length by .002 this is fairly simple to do using a benchrest die with Micrometer dial. if not then it will take a few dummy rounds to get it right.
gotta go shoot straigh tand test this with three sets of five before you go ahead and load 1k that is a lot of errors in a row if your wrong haha0 -
http://practicalrifler.6.forumer.com/index.php
follow this link for some great info for loading the 308. hope this helps don0
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