Bullet Failures - Explanation from Berger
Bullet Failure Explanations from Berger Bullets
Bullet Failure Causes and Solutions Defined
As many of you know we have been working on the bullet failure (blow up) situation for some time. I have been collecting data from numerous shooters over the last 2 A? years ranging from general observations to controlled experiments. At Berger, we have been working with folks at MIT and with other top minds in metallurgy and ballistics. What I have below is a report on what we have learned.
To briefly review, bullet failure is when the bullet does not hit the target anywhere near the expected impact location. (This is not about the unexpected 8 or the fifth shot out of a bug hole group). This result can be observed as a shot that is driven way off course but does make it to the ground, a shot that appears as a puff of smoke 30 yards or more from the muzzle, and everything in between. The shooter can experience bullet failure with several shots or with one shot out of a string.
The wide range of results and conditions has made it very challenging to sort out the true root cause. The information below is meant to bring the true root causes to the surface. I am not suggesting that these causes exist in every situation; however, they cover the vast majority of bullet failures.
The first two root causes are responsible for the most bullet failures:
Excessive RPM resulting from high velocity and a barrel that has a twist rate much faster than is needed for the bullet used. We are working on determining the general RPM limits for various bullets. This will be a long project, and the data we have now is not enough to publish RPM limits.
Solution: Use twist rates that are the same as or close to (faster) published recommendation. When shooting cartridges that produce higher than normal velocity (high capacity wildcats) consider using twist rates slower than those published since the published twist recommendations are based on velocities achieved by standard cartridges. (How much slower is based on the situation however it will usually be only 1?__ slower)
Friction that produces heat that exceeds the melting point of lead. This result is observed most often by the puff of ?_osmoke?__ that will be within the first hundred yards from the muzzle. The ?_osmoke?__ is in fact molten lead. The puff of molten lead does not always occur during this failure. A core that becomes even slightly plastic will not make it to the target properly.
You have heard me talk about a combination of conditions that produces a failure. I have believed this to be true for a long time but frankly, it has only been recently that we have begun to truly understand what is actually happening. Once we started looking at the possibility of the core melting, all the puzzling information from the various reports began to make sense. This is going to be a lengthy post focused on identifying root causes and their solutions so I will not go into all the various conditions and ranges in which these conditions exist that support these findings.
The report that our bullets would fail while Sierras would not was particularly puzzling. We have known for a while that making the jacket thicker does not make the jacket significantly stronger. As it turns out, we were looking at it from the wrong point of view. We had been looking at a thicker jacket as being a tougher jacket and this just isn?_Tt true, however when you have a thicker jacket you are moving the lead away from the source of the heat (friction between the barrel and the bullet which is mostly in the area of the rifling, not the grooves). Bullets that have thicker jackets are actually thicker in the base and sidewalls near the base, which moves the lead further away from the heat. This increases the amount of friction that the thicker jacketed bullet can realize before the lead core gets hot enough to melt.
Since thicker jackets are difficult to make concentric, we have two solutions. The first is that we are going to work on making thicker jackets for our long-range bullets. This is going to take time, as we will not produce jackets that are greater than .0003 TIR in wall thickness variation. This is harder to do with thicker jackets. The bullets we make now shoot very well and there are several ways that this failure-creating friction can be avoided as it has been by many shooters. Avoiding this condition is the second solution.
Solution for avoiding failure-creating heat using our current bullets: The goal is not to slow the bullet down but rather reduce the heat created by the friction. There are several ways to do this. (Keep in mind that each condition is not absolute and in fact works with other conditions to create failure. Since failures occur occasionally when all the conditions work together to create excessive heat we know that it will not take much to insure that failures are avoided)
First, you can consider your barrel length. It has been found that barrels longer than 28?__ are capable of produce failure-creating heat. Remember that the bullet is hottest at the muzzle. The more metal the bullet has to travel over, the hotter it gets.
Second, consider using moly, Danzac (tungsten disulfide), or any other dry lubricant as these reduce friction thereby reducing heat. I know moly is a hot button for many shooters however setting all other things aside it works great as a friction (heat) reducer.
Third, consider running a patch with a light amount of Kroil through your barrel prior to shooting. This will lubricate the barrel long enough until the carbon builds up enough to serve the same purpose. The first few shots will be erratic, but failure-creating heat is avoided. Barrels that are squeaky clean produce significant levels of friction if no friction reducers are present before firing. (I am not suggesting that you do not clean your barrel completely but rather pointing out how to avoid failure-creating heat when you start shooting).
Fourth, consider the bore diameter of your barrel (land height not groove depth). Some barrel makers can provide you with different bore diameters. Consider diameters on the larger side of the available options.
Fifth, consider the land configuration in your barrel. Six groove, cut, squared off rifling produces greater friction than a 5C or 5R type barrel. The 5C or 5R type rifling produces more friction than a three-groove barrel. I am not suggesting one is better than another; however, the friction generated by the different rifling designs should not be ignored.
Sixth, consider the cartridge you are using. Cartridges such as the 6X284 or any overbore wildcat are notorious for high velocity and barrel life consumption (rapid erosion). These are some of the main ingredients in failure-creating heat generation.
Please remember that the combination of components used in your rifle is a compromise. I have learned why Berger Bullets fail when others do not. I have decided to share this with you because I am committed to enhancing the experience for the shooter and in my opinion, more information is better even if on the surface this information makes us look bad.
Many shooters avoid failure-creating heat when they use Berger and find that Bergers work best for them. You can look at the information above as a reason not to shoot Berger or you can look at it as detailed instructions on how to make Bergers work for you without the concern of producing failures. If you value the accuracy that Bergers produce, then the above information details areas where you can make an easy compromise now that you have all the facts. If you value the conditions listed above that produce failure-creating heat more than you value the accuracy of Berger Bullets, then your decision is also made easier with these details.
The following root causes are responsible for bullet failures but in smaller numbers:
Human error that produces failure-causing condition. Let?_Ts all admit up front that none of us are perfect. A shooter can create failure-causing condition in the barrel by improper break in, cleaning or storage (crown damage). Failure causing conditions can be created with the load as well. Using the wrong powder, not chamfering necks, excessively tight neck tension damaging the base of the bullet, poor handling practices can also lead to failures. Careful and appropriate firearm handling and loading practices usually avoid these failure causing conditions.
Tight or rough bore that actually tears jacket material away from the bullet. This is an extreme and rare condition that is easily identifiable with a bore scope, by slugging the barrel or by feeling for a spot that is more resistant to cleaning with a tight patch. Barrel makers are quick to resolve this situation.
Poor bullet fabrication such as too low or too high seating pressure. Low seating pressure can create a poor mechanical bond and/or air pockets that further destabilize the bullet. Seating pressure that is too high effects the copper jacket by producing a weakness where the nose can separate from the body. These conditions can be most easily detected by weighing your bullets, as too low or too high seating pressure is mostly the result of an extreme change in the mass of the lead.
Other examples of poor fabrication are any excessive lube on the cores (many bullet makers do not clean their cores before bullets are swaged) or debris between the jacket and the core can produce a weak bond, air pockets and/or significant stability issues through poor balance around the axis. Another poor fabrication condition that is easiest to avoid is lead that contains debris or significant air pockets due to double extrusion. This condition does not exist when a quality source of lead is used. Quality bullet manufacturers of which there are many can avoid all of these fabrication conditions.
There might be some other causes of bullet failures beyond those listed above but they happen is such rare occurrences that they have not been identified and should not weigh heavily on your mind.
It is my sincere hope that you find this information useful toward enhancing your shooting experience.
Regards,
Eric Stecker
Berger Bullets
Bullet Failure Causes and Solutions Defined
As many of you know we have been working on the bullet failure (blow up) situation for some time. I have been collecting data from numerous shooters over the last 2 A? years ranging from general observations to controlled experiments. At Berger, we have been working with folks at MIT and with other top minds in metallurgy and ballistics. What I have below is a report on what we have learned.
To briefly review, bullet failure is when the bullet does not hit the target anywhere near the expected impact location. (This is not about the unexpected 8 or the fifth shot out of a bug hole group). This result can be observed as a shot that is driven way off course but does make it to the ground, a shot that appears as a puff of smoke 30 yards or more from the muzzle, and everything in between. The shooter can experience bullet failure with several shots or with one shot out of a string.
The wide range of results and conditions has made it very challenging to sort out the true root cause. The information below is meant to bring the true root causes to the surface. I am not suggesting that these causes exist in every situation; however, they cover the vast majority of bullet failures.
The first two root causes are responsible for the most bullet failures:
Excessive RPM resulting from high velocity and a barrel that has a twist rate much faster than is needed for the bullet used. We are working on determining the general RPM limits for various bullets. This will be a long project, and the data we have now is not enough to publish RPM limits.
Solution: Use twist rates that are the same as or close to (faster) published recommendation. When shooting cartridges that produce higher than normal velocity (high capacity wildcats) consider using twist rates slower than those published since the published twist recommendations are based on velocities achieved by standard cartridges. (How much slower is based on the situation however it will usually be only 1?__ slower)
Friction that produces heat that exceeds the melting point of lead. This result is observed most often by the puff of ?_osmoke?__ that will be within the first hundred yards from the muzzle. The ?_osmoke?__ is in fact molten lead. The puff of molten lead does not always occur during this failure. A core that becomes even slightly plastic will not make it to the target properly.
You have heard me talk about a combination of conditions that produces a failure. I have believed this to be true for a long time but frankly, it has only been recently that we have begun to truly understand what is actually happening. Once we started looking at the possibility of the core melting, all the puzzling information from the various reports began to make sense. This is going to be a lengthy post focused on identifying root causes and their solutions so I will not go into all the various conditions and ranges in which these conditions exist that support these findings.
The report that our bullets would fail while Sierras would not was particularly puzzling. We have known for a while that making the jacket thicker does not make the jacket significantly stronger. As it turns out, we were looking at it from the wrong point of view. We had been looking at a thicker jacket as being a tougher jacket and this just isn?_Tt true, however when you have a thicker jacket you are moving the lead away from the source of the heat (friction between the barrel and the bullet which is mostly in the area of the rifling, not the grooves). Bullets that have thicker jackets are actually thicker in the base and sidewalls near the base, which moves the lead further away from the heat. This increases the amount of friction that the thicker jacketed bullet can realize before the lead core gets hot enough to melt.
Since thicker jackets are difficult to make concentric, we have two solutions. The first is that we are going to work on making thicker jackets for our long-range bullets. This is going to take time, as we will not produce jackets that are greater than .0003 TIR in wall thickness variation. This is harder to do with thicker jackets. The bullets we make now shoot very well and there are several ways that this failure-creating friction can be avoided as it has been by many shooters. Avoiding this condition is the second solution.
Solution for avoiding failure-creating heat using our current bullets: The goal is not to slow the bullet down but rather reduce the heat created by the friction. There are several ways to do this. (Keep in mind that each condition is not absolute and in fact works with other conditions to create failure. Since failures occur occasionally when all the conditions work together to create excessive heat we know that it will not take much to insure that failures are avoided)
First, you can consider your barrel length. It has been found that barrels longer than 28?__ are capable of produce failure-creating heat. Remember that the bullet is hottest at the muzzle. The more metal the bullet has to travel over, the hotter it gets.
Second, consider using moly, Danzac (tungsten disulfide), or any other dry lubricant as these reduce friction thereby reducing heat. I know moly is a hot button for many shooters however setting all other things aside it works great as a friction (heat) reducer.
Third, consider running a patch with a light amount of Kroil through your barrel prior to shooting. This will lubricate the barrel long enough until the carbon builds up enough to serve the same purpose. The first few shots will be erratic, but failure-creating heat is avoided. Barrels that are squeaky clean produce significant levels of friction if no friction reducers are present before firing. (I am not suggesting that you do not clean your barrel completely but rather pointing out how to avoid failure-creating heat when you start shooting).
Fourth, consider the bore diameter of your barrel (land height not groove depth). Some barrel makers can provide you with different bore diameters. Consider diameters on the larger side of the available options.
Fifth, consider the land configuration in your barrel. Six groove, cut, squared off rifling produces greater friction than a 5C or 5R type barrel. The 5C or 5R type rifling produces more friction than a three-groove barrel. I am not suggesting one is better than another; however, the friction generated by the different rifling designs should not be ignored.
Sixth, consider the cartridge you are using. Cartridges such as the 6X284 or any overbore wildcat are notorious for high velocity and barrel life consumption (rapid erosion). These are some of the main ingredients in failure-creating heat generation.
Please remember that the combination of components used in your rifle is a compromise. I have learned why Berger Bullets fail when others do not. I have decided to share this with you because I am committed to enhancing the experience for the shooter and in my opinion, more information is better even if on the surface this information makes us look bad.
Many shooters avoid failure-creating heat when they use Berger and find that Bergers work best for them. You can look at the information above as a reason not to shoot Berger or you can look at it as detailed instructions on how to make Bergers work for you without the concern of producing failures. If you value the accuracy that Bergers produce, then the above information details areas where you can make an easy compromise now that you have all the facts. If you value the conditions listed above that produce failure-creating heat more than you value the accuracy of Berger Bullets, then your decision is also made easier with these details.
The following root causes are responsible for bullet failures but in smaller numbers:
Human error that produces failure-causing condition. Let?_Ts all admit up front that none of us are perfect. A shooter can create failure-causing condition in the barrel by improper break in, cleaning or storage (crown damage). Failure causing conditions can be created with the load as well. Using the wrong powder, not chamfering necks, excessively tight neck tension damaging the base of the bullet, poor handling practices can also lead to failures. Careful and appropriate firearm handling and loading practices usually avoid these failure causing conditions.
Tight or rough bore that actually tears jacket material away from the bullet. This is an extreme and rare condition that is easily identifiable with a bore scope, by slugging the barrel or by feeling for a spot that is more resistant to cleaning with a tight patch. Barrel makers are quick to resolve this situation.
Poor bullet fabrication such as too low or too high seating pressure. Low seating pressure can create a poor mechanical bond and/or air pockets that further destabilize the bullet. Seating pressure that is too high effects the copper jacket by producing a weakness where the nose can separate from the body. These conditions can be most easily detected by weighing your bullets, as too low or too high seating pressure is mostly the result of an extreme change in the mass of the lead.
Other examples of poor fabrication are any excessive lube on the cores (many bullet makers do not clean their cores before bullets are swaged) or debris between the jacket and the core can produce a weak bond, air pockets and/or significant stability issues through poor balance around the axis. Another poor fabrication condition that is easiest to avoid is lead that contains debris or significant air pockets due to double extrusion. This condition does not exist when a quality source of lead is used. Quality bullet manufacturers of which there are many can avoid all of these fabrication conditions.
There might be some other causes of bullet failures beyond those listed above but they happen is such rare occurrences that they have not been identified and should not weigh heavily on your mind.
It is my sincere hope that you find this information useful toward enhancing your shooting experience.
Regards,
Eric Stecker
Berger Bullets
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Great read Thanks 0 -
Indeed great read. I've never had a Berger fail me though. So, I will keep using them and keep in mind the posting. 0 -
sandwarrior,
I haven't had a Berger failure either and I've shot a ton of them. Well, I can't really say that as being 100% because I did have one failure, one time and it was my fault I know for sure.
In response to quite a few complaints, many of us have spoken with Eric and some of the other folks at Berger trying to get the straight scoop as to why and when some Berger bullets fail. I have been fortunate to have had access to Walt Berger on several occasions for comprehensive conversations about bullets and he always suggested that maybe the shooters need to examine their desire for extremes in velocity.
Most of us hadn't had failures and we were skeptical as to the factual content of the other reports. The biggest clue to the failures, when we got truthful information, was that velocity could be a major factor in failures. One of the most vocal detractors of Berger Bullets always laid the blame at the feet of Berger's use of thin jackets. He is a shill for Sierra since they sponsored his shooting and written prolifically, denigrating Berger. He will finally been silenced.
There have always been reports of that mysterious 'gray mist' that some have seen when shooting targets. Not the vapor trail but the real deal lead trail as the core melted. It isn't hard to understand the factors of friction and the coefficient of friction once you've seen that streak that ends before what's left of the bullet reaches the target. Chronographs do a great job of aiding in some of the explanations.
I think this preliminary report is useful and beneficial for all shooters. I'm glad that Eric took the time to follow through and write about what they found.
Best.0 -
My 6.5 twist .223 was looking like being a waste of money; I could not count on getting 90 grain Sierras all the way to the target. 75 gr A-Max was worse.
Then Berger got them into production. Theirs go all the way. (So do JLKs.)0 -
nononsense,
It's funny that a whole big deal was made about Berger's thin jackets. Because that has always been Sierra's weakness in the hunting world. Sierra will always note the matchking bullets should not be used as big game bullets. It's notated all the way through their latest manual.
Once I've started using Bergers I made a comparison between them and Sierra and I feel there is a significant difference. One that can be seen as close as 300 yds in the BC of their bullets.
The only 'failures' I had with Bergers was not pushing 70 gr. bullets fast enough in my 1-9" twist .223 rifle. They keyholed the target at 100 yds. and nearly straight in at 300 but groups were poor until I sped the bullet up enough to stabilize them. The lightest Bullets I've used from Berger for caliber were the 87 gr. bullets. I loved them for their accuracy and ability to get velocity. All my .25 cals are short barrelled. So I think the friction issue wouldn't apply here so much. When I get my next one built in a 25 or 26" Shilen I'll be looking for the friction heat to become a problem...or not.
Thank you for the update.0 -
quote:Hawk Carse
Junior Member
209 Posts
Posted - 02/14/2007 : 2:00:17 PM
My 6.5 twist .223 was looking like being a waste of money;
At what point do you go out and buy a gun that was meant to shoot a bullet that wieght? I.E. not a .223, what are you really gaining by sticking with the .223 and 90 grain ammo, with 6.5 twist rifling, instead of just changing calibers?0 -
Interesting read.
I finished up the load ladder test on my 204 with a variety of powders and bullets. I experienced 4 bullet failures. Sierra 32 grain BK's did not make it to the 100 yard target if speed was over 4050 fps from my Savage model 12FV.0 -
quote:Originally posted by Dave W.
quote:Hawk Carse
Junior Member
209 Posts
Posted - 02/14/2007 : 2:00:17 PM
My 6.5 twist .223 was looking like being a waste of money;
At what point do you go out and buy a gun that was meant to shoot a bullet that wieght? I.E. not a .223, what are you really gaining by sticking with the .223 and 90 grain ammo, with 6.5 twist rifling, instead of just changing calibers?
I took up F class Long Range shooting. I looked at the big fancy F-Open guns and decided to go for the simpler F-T/R where the only calibers allowed are .223 and .308.
I had a flattop AR that I was not shooting and could not sell.
I read about the then-new 90 grain SMK and bought a barrel to shoot it. It did pretty well during load development but when I cranked the loads up to insure that it would make it to 1000 yards supersonic, bullets started getting lost in transit. With lighter loads, it was fine at 600.
I went off and shot a .308 at 1000 for a while but then Berger and JLK brought out 90 grain .22 bullets so I tried them. They work. So now I have two thousand yard rifles.0 -
Thanks for the information- now I understand more of what's happening when there's a gray streak and no impact on target when I would shoot my 257 Wby custom. Getting the barrel really clean seemed to make it worse- now I know why, and what to do about it. 0
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