Need opionion on 22BR barrel for ENCORE
As some of you know I am very pleased with the performance of the 6BR barrel on my TC Encore frame.
It was made by Bullberry in Utah.
I called them this morning looking to order a barrel in 22BR to compliment the 6BR. To put it kindly; my hair hurt after TRYING to get a word in edge wise with a gentleman there named Fred. He contradicted everything I have learned over the past few years.
I am seeking advice on getting a barrel.
He told me the following;
That I don't want a barrel over 20" long in 22BR; Because the gun can move before the bullet has left the barrel. I told him this was for very informal BR and hunting varmints. He recommends a full bull barrel but very short ONLY. He said all the powder is burned in a 6BR case and long barrels are a not needed for MV.
European brass is too "hard" to use and Remington 6BR brass is used by everyone in the valley (someplace in Utah). He calimed it does not need neck turned
He said that a 12 twist is better than a 14 twist for 52,53 and 55 grain .22 bullets.
Lastly, he uses Wilson Barrel blanks ONLY.
If I supply the barrel blank there is only an 80 buck credit for it!
There is a four and one half month wait for the barrel.
QUESTIONS:
What twist, length and neck measurement would you order in a .22BR and why.
I was going to order a 24" heavy taper to .850 at the muzzle, 14 twist and a ???? neck.
I have 100 new 6BR LAPUA cases to turn into .22BR. I have the K&M Services neck turning tool with dial indicator. Now, I am just looking for input and asprin for my headache!
It was made by Bullberry in Utah.
I called them this morning looking to order a barrel in 22BR to compliment the 6BR. To put it kindly; my hair hurt after TRYING to get a word in edge wise with a gentleman there named Fred. He contradicted everything I have learned over the past few years.
I am seeking advice on getting a barrel.
He told me the following;
That I don't want a barrel over 20" long in 22BR; Because the gun can move before the bullet has left the barrel. I told him this was for very informal BR and hunting varmints. He recommends a full bull barrel but very short ONLY. He said all the powder is burned in a 6BR case and long barrels are a not needed for MV.
European brass is too "hard" to use and Remington 6BR brass is used by everyone in the valley (someplace in Utah). He calimed it does not need neck turned
He said that a 12 twist is better than a 14 twist for 52,53 and 55 grain .22 bullets.
Lastly, he uses Wilson Barrel blanks ONLY.
If I supply the barrel blank there is only an 80 buck credit for it!
There is a four and one half month wait for the barrel.
QUESTIONS:
What twist, length and neck measurement would you order in a .22BR and why.
I was going to order a 24" heavy taper to .850 at the muzzle, 14 twist and a ???? neck.
I have 100 new 6BR LAPUA cases to turn into .22BR. I have the K&M Services neck turning tool with dial indicator. Now, I am just looking for input and asprin for my headache!
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Depends....
Longer barrel will provide higher feet per second. Depends on the powder selection.
Interesting that one brand of brass does not need neck turning for a wildcat.
Twist rate....I don't think I would order a 1 in 12...I would order a 1 in 8.5 or 1 in 9 so it will stabilize the 69 and up grain bullets. Otherwise, kind of a waste of a 22br barrel and cases. Why not take advantage of it?0 -
Bpost,
I'm with dcloco on the twist rate. 1-8" to 1-10" twist at least. you won't overstabilize 50-55's using that twist for the range you will be shooting. But if you want to go to heavy bullets you will have the tighter twist needed. If you feel that you won't ever do that go with the slower 1-12" twist. That will stabilize the range you gave just right...so would 1-14". The .22 br moves bullets fast enough for those twists.
As far as the barrel length, like dcloco said the shorter barrel will require using faster powders. You then lose a little versatility. True that the powder is ignited/burned by 12-14"...but it is still producing gobs of pressure out to 25". As far as the rifle moving before the bullet gets out of the barrel that is true of all rifles. The trick is to find a harmonic resonance(i.e. LOAD) that your gun likes. Get the long barrel if you like it. It will certainly help with heavier bullets should you go that way.
A simple phrase is how I sometimes deal with a pushy salesman...let him finish...then say, "I'm the customer, and this is how I want it..." Give him your specs. If he doesn't want to do it your way. Say good bye and then write a letter. -good luck0 -
bpost1958,
I'm sorry to hear that you had a disheartening discussion (monologue?) with Fred. Fred ownes Bullberry Barrel Works and has always in the past been exceedingly helpful and generous with both his time and expertise. His knowledge regarding T/C barrels and ballistics has been outstanding in the past. But he is the very epitome of a Type A personality! His barrels have usually been top notch as far as quality and customer service is concerned, although I question the current use of Wilson blanks... He used to offer Shilen and before that Douglas and I would take either of those before a Wilson but that's my prejudice, Wilson may be fine for this application.
Fred, in his singlemindedness, has spawned several other businesses started by former employees that needed to spread their own respective wings. Here is one that might be able to lend a hand with your dilemma:
http://www.matchgrademachine.com/
One point at a time:
"He said all the powder is burned in a 6BR case and long barrels are a not needed for MV." Horsefeathers! Plain and simple ballistic ignorance.
I think Fred is operating off of that "benchrest" mentality where they believe that the only good barrel is short (20" or less) and stubby. There may be something to his logic from the standpoint of being a break action system but I don't see a problem with a longer barrel. Order the barrel length that you want, it's your money and a slightly longer barrel will offer the opportunity to use a broader selection of powders. You can achieve slightly higher velocities at reasonable pressures with additional length, more splat effect!
Twist rate: 1:8", 9", 10" 12", or 14". The benchrest logic is the slowest twist that will stabilize a bullet out to the yardage of the target. This eliminates some of the ballistic anomolies that can occur from faster twist rates and stress on the bullets. If you want to limit the bullet selection to the mid-50's then I would use Fred's choice an go for the 12" twist. We're looking for "POP" factors here on those pesky varmints and the 12" twist will be mild enough to not stress the bullets but give the potential for some additional visual entertainment. Slightly faster twist rates with appropriate bullets can increase the Splat factor. The all-time, old standby, 55 gr. Sierra Blitz will perform superbly as will the 55 gr. Hornady VMAX FB.
My first choice for brass is Lapua but I have also used several batches of Remington BR brass that have performed to my highest expectations. Lapua will give you the consistancy that we expect from top quality brass. Too hard? Hmmmmm... not for me.
I don't like to turn necks so if I can avoid it, I do. If you feel the need to turn necks, use a minimum turn to just clean up the O.D. of the neck and establish concentricity. Mike your necked down brass to see if the neck walls are consistant in thickness and concentricity. If they are, don't waste your time and energy turning.
Here is a link to a pretty good article on the 22BR:
http://www.6mmbr.com/22BR.html
Good luck!0 -
i'm not much into the benchrest world, and can't offer much expertise on the 6mmbr, but i do know that it's not too spendy to cut and crown a barrel. you can always go shorter later, you can't go longer. i've had a few shortened, usually made an improvement because of a better crown. just a thought. 0 -
I would do yourself a favor and take a good hard look at the 30BR instead. I saw almost every single rifle in the LV and HV class this weekend marked "30BR" or some other version (30-BAS-BR) 30 Bill's accuracy Shop-BR (shoulders I beleive .100" fwd with an ackley shoulder). The guys have left their trusty 6br's and 22br's home and have been shooting the heck out of the 30BR. It will yield higher scores when shooting for score and would be easy to sell to a beginning varmint class BR shooter who is looking to try their hand but spend less than the regulars. If that is of any interest, I would look at something in the 1:15-1:17 twist for the 115-118gr match pills.
The wind was blowing and switching yesterday, and it wasn't easy to say the least. But at 200yds, in the wind, there were quite a few 30BR shooters with 245-249pts out of a possible 250pts. My 50gr v-max from my 220swift (factory class) was beat up bad by the wind, but them 30BR's were "right as the mail"[;)]0 -
quote:Originally posted by JustC
I would do yourself a favor and take a good hard look at the 30BR instead. I saw almost every single rifle in the LV and HV class this weekend marked "30BR" or some other version (30-BAS-BR) 30 Bill's accuracy Shop-BR (shoulders I beleive .100" fwd with an ackley shoulder). The guys have left their trusty 6br's and 22br's home and have been shooting the heck out of the 30BR. It will yield higher scores when shooting for score and would be easy to sell to a beginning varmint class BR shooter who is looking to try their hand but spend less than the regulars. If that is of any interest, I would look at something in the 1:15-1:17 twist for the 115-118gr match pills.
The wind was blowing and switching yesterday, and it wasn't easy to say the least. But at 200yds, in the wind, there were quite a few 30BR shooters with 245-249pts out of a possible 250pts. My 50gr v-max from my 220swift (factory class) was beat up bad by the wind, but them 30BR's were "right as the mail"[;)]
[:D][:D][:D] Funny you should mention the 30BR. I am getting the 22BR first to replace the 22-250 barrel I sold, to plink with and shoot varimints. The barrel I get after the 22BR is going to be a 30 BR for sure [:D]. I like the reported 7,000 round barrel life.0 -
Look up Wayne France in the IBS standings,..he swept the match and he is over 6000rnds on his tube right now[;)][8D] 0
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