Short or long action for .257 Roberts?
Couldn't figure out whether to post here or in experts but it has something to do with reloading, so here we are.
I've been toying with the idea of building a .257 Roberts bolt action rifle and came to a quandary, what length action do I use?
My Sierra book puts the overall length of loaded ammo at 2.775" which should mean that it is a short action, but I looked at the .257 I already have and it is a long action ( Ruger M77 MKII Ultra light ), I also checked my handloaded ammo that I shoot in this gun and it is 2.9" in length, this ammo is seated out to just a fuzz off of the lands and is producing sub MOA 3 shot groups all the time.
I'd like to hear some opinions on the action length selection and why?
By the way the .257 I already have is really a gun I bought for the little lady and she is quite posessive about it so I thought I'd put together one for me too. Not wanting a 25/06 or an Ackley Improved, just talking about the good old .257 Roberts. Will put together something light with a pencil thin barrel but I don't want weight to be the determining factor for the action length ( the Ruger rifle in long action barely weighs 6 pounds before the scope ).
Thanks in advance.
I've been toying with the idea of building a .257 Roberts bolt action rifle and came to a quandary, what length action do I use?
My Sierra book puts the overall length of loaded ammo at 2.775" which should mean that it is a short action, but I looked at the .257 I already have and it is a long action ( Ruger M77 MKII Ultra light ), I also checked my handloaded ammo that I shoot in this gun and it is 2.9" in length, this ammo is seated out to just a fuzz off of the lands and is producing sub MOA 3 shot groups all the time.
I'd like to hear some opinions on the action length selection and why?
By the way the .257 I already have is really a gun I bought for the little lady and she is quite posessive about it so I thought I'd put together one for me too. Not wanting a 25/06 or an Ackley Improved, just talking about the good old .257 Roberts. Will put together something light with a pencil thin barrel but I don't want weight to be the determining factor for the action length ( the Ruger rifle in long action barely weighs 6 pounds before the scope ).
Thanks in advance.
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Snellstrom,
LONG ACTION!... It drove me nuts that we had to seat 90 grs. and above too deep into the case to get them to fit in either my dad's old 722 or his 700 that was rebarrelled in .257. My Ruger has a long action and so do the Winchesters that were chambered for it. Come to think of it the Rem. 30S was a long action also.
The problem if you followed my thinking through my tirade was in a short action magazine you can't get the bullet anywhere near the lands like they are supposed to be to improve accuracy. In the long actions you can tinker with seating depth with room to spare if you want.
All said and done I still think it would be best to find a Mauser action of reasonable quality or buy a new Zastava action and build it on them, not the 700. This will eliminate tinkering with the siderails/follower to get it to feed right because the case is shaped almost exactly like the 8mm and 7mm Mausers. -hope that helps
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Thanks Sand that was my train of thought too.
Speaking of the Zastava action ( I know Charles Daly is importing some) where is a good source for them, I've not seen them wholesale anywhere?
I only see them on the Zastava and Charles Daly websites.0 -
I see them here on GB for anywhere from $199-299. I think some of the import brokers have actions for sale also. Remember to look also at the VZ's. Which I should have said I actually prefer, you just can't buy them as action only. Obviously, look for one that isn't collectable. Most VZ's I've found were in good shape but the barrels were pretty worn out. That would make for a good rebuilder.
Some of the Turk actions are good to rebuild on also. They may take a lot of work to get trued up though.
Something I have found also, is that while you may be looking for a very lightweight .257, the short barrel doesn't lend itself well to slower burning powders. Nor does a light barrel lend itself well to heavier bullets. You can maintain hunting accuracy but that is about it. They are a pretty handy rifle though when it comes to working in closer cover. I myself prefer a 24" barrel on a midweight rifle. -good luck
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I have built a couple of these and can tell you several reasons to use a long action. the standard 98 mauser works perfect.
The original factory loads seated the bullets deep ,keeping the OAL to a minimum for some reason.Also the factory loads are very mild.
When you or your builder cuts the chamber cut the throat extra long.
This will allow you to seat the longer 120 gr bullets well out of the case giving you more powder capacity and relieving the pressure.
You can load well past what the book says with carefully working up a half grain at a time until you see high pressure signs .Back up a little when you do and you will know your rifles limit. Ive found you can usually equal or get very close to 25/06 velocity .
seat the bullet back from where it touches the rifling 10 to 20 thousandths and work your loads up slowly and carefully.
with the lighter varmint bullets you can actually beat the 25/06 by working up your load the same way.
you cant use the long throat and and very long OAL in a short action. if you want performance the long action is it.
<BR>0 -
Thanks guys I appreciate all the feedback.
My project will continue with a Win M70 long action ( probably push feed ) a pencil thin barrel longer than the 20" one on my old ladies Ruger ultra Light ( probably 22" maybe 23 or 24 but I doubt it will be 24"). More than likely a Boyds laminate stock cut to my spec's to come close to reproducing the M77 Ultra light stock or a M700 Mountain Rifle stock.
This gun will be built to be light and accurate. I'll end up with a Leupold scope rings and bases on it.
Thanks again.....0 -
Snellstrom,
I just re-zeroed my .257 for deer hunting tommorrow( = "I found an excuse to go to the range") and noted that with normally seated 100 gr. bullets I had a shade over 1/4" to go in the magazine. As the throat erodes a little( I have over 1200 rounds through the rifle) I have room to push them out a ways. That is with the Ruger Mk II Ultralight. If you just wanted to go down and buy a .257 without making one up custom I would go with the standard. Those two inches sure make the round perform better. Two more is about the best it gets. Or if you were going with a custom I would lighten the stock up any way I could before I would shorten/lighten the barrel. -I always enjoy perpetuating the Roberts legacy, my first favorite cartridge
We have the second amendment so that all the rest are secure....UNK>0
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