6.5-06
Haven't kept up with wildcat cartridges being made legitimate, but I cannot imagine coming up with a combo that has not already been done. Okay, .270Win = necked down 30-06. .243Win. = necked down .308Win. Same for 7mm-08 and .260Rem, which both based on the .308Win case, are .284 and 6.5mm bullets respectively. Right so far? So, given the popularity of the 6.5 bullet, is a 6.5-06 coming, or is that just too close to being a 25-06 (which is 30-06 necked down to .257)? Or is that 6.5-378 really not a pipe dream?
roysclockgun
roysclockgun
0
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the 6.5-06 has been out for some 20yrs or more. There are dies readily available from redding and reamers from most all manufacturers. I have the Ackley Improved version of this chambering in a 1:8 twist barrel and it will flat out hump the 140gr pills.
The 6.5x378 will be nothing short of grossly overbore and a throat toasting monster with highly inefficient burn characteristics. BUT, they will make you any reamer you want[:)]
RL22 and H4831sc have been superb in that case for me.
why chase the game when the bullet can get em from here?....
Got Balistics?0 -
There are more 6.5/06's on 98 mauser actions than you can shake a lot of sticks at.
I know of 4 in this area alone.
The 6.5 X 284 will usually do a better job.
Gun control is hitting what your aiming at.0 -
Steven,
My Great Grandfather was a watchmaker. I got to see some of his work and his tools when I was extremely young. It was fascinating stuff for a youngster...
"...is a 6.5-06 coming..."
From Accurate Arms Powder Co.
6.5-06
This wildcat is based on the .30-06 case necked down to accept .264" diameter bullets. The 6.5-06 is very similar to the old .256 Newton cartridge loaded by the Western Cartridge Company from 1913 to 1938.
For fans of the 6.5mm bore, the 6.5-06 is an excellent choice. The cartridge cases are easy to form and the cartridge is suitable for long-range varmint shooting or hunting and even elk and moose with proper bullets.
There is no SAAMI pressure limit for the 6.5-06. The Maximum Average Pressure for the .25-06 Remington is 63,000 P.S.I. The 6.5-06 and the .25-06 are very similar. These loads do not exceed the pressure limit of the .25-06.
The 6.5-06 is a superb cartridge for both hunting and some of the various target competitions. It is reasonably balanced for the heavier bullets but can show signs of being slightly overbore when coupled with the lighter bullets. It also helps to have a longer barrel rather than a shorter one. My hunting rifle has a 27" barrel and does quite well using a 139 gr. bullet out past 500 yards on game.
The nice part is that cases can be made by simply necking 25-06 brass, which is how I do it for the hunting rifle. But I usually will use some RWS .270 Win. brass to make my competition cases because of the ability to have a longer neck. If anyone is considering to go with the 6.5/06, the better bet is to use 6.5/270 WIN. The longer neck helps to save throat life. And it gives me a way to separate my brass for each rifle.
Best.
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mrbruce did write: "The 6.5 X 284 will usually do a better job."
Does not the .284 simply use a necked down .308Win case? If so, would not the 6.5x284 = .260Rem ?
roysclockgun0 -
No, the .284 case is unique with a .473 rim diameter, a .500" head diameter and an OAL of 2.170", designed for use in short actions.
Best.0 -
Okay, thanks for clearing up the distinction twixt 260Rem and 6.5x284. So, given the miniscule difference, it seems a no-brainer that when choosing between the two, one would go with the 260Rem and all the support that one should expect from using a Remington cartridge. Not to mention resale of a .260Rem to someone who does not hand load.
roysclockgun0 -
several manufacturers have begun making the 6.5x284 brass, however, I would opt for the 6.5x55. The venerable sweed has begun making some serious headway in the last few years on the BR circuit and is just a tad more pleasant to the throat than the 6.5x284 chambering.
why chase the game when the bullet can get em from here?....
Got Balistics?0 -
roysclockgun,
I think I need to do this a bit at a time.
"So, given the miniscule difference,..."
Actually, the dimensions don't give a good indication as to the difference. The case volume of the 6.5-284 Win. is 20% more than the .260 Rem. Given appropriate powder and bullets, the 6.5-284 is significantly above the .260 Rem.
"...and all the support that one should expect from using a Remington cartridge."
I'm not sure what this is all about considering that I've never received any support from Remington simply because I used their cartridges.
"...it seems a no-brainer that when choosing between the two,..."
"Not to mention resale of a .260Rem to someone who does not hand load."
Now the re-sale idea, I'll go along with. But choosing between them is a little more difficult for most people and definitely not a no-brainer.
Best.0 -
"...and all the support that one should expect from using a Remington cartridge."
"I'm not sure what this is all about considering that I've never received any support from Remington simply because I used their cartridges."
I did not mean that Remington will hold anyone's hand. Support in terms of keeping their ammo on the shelves. Support in terms of continuing to produce rifle models offered in that chambering. Support in the military term, meaning that when parts and ammo are no longer available the firearm become "unsupportable". No?
Wildcat cartridges come and go.
roysclockgun0 -
the 260 rem is a virgin in the world of chamberings and necking down a 308 doesn't take rocket science on the production line. The 6.5x284 WAS a wildcat,..but after a few records were set,..we see the factories making brass for it. After you install a match tube in any caliber,..your support is nill, even in an available caliber. Don't count on the factories,..they will let you down most of the time. They are run by accountants, not by shooters.
why chase the game when the bullet can get em from here?....
Got Balistics?0 -
I find that the factories are more attuned to supporting themselves and their bottom line, as they should be. But, it can definitely leave a lot of folks out in the cold on many occasions. I see it as a two way street, where we support the factories by purchasing their goods and services, they keep the supply lines open and filled. The difference that we are seeing now stems from the accountants. Whereas, when they see a slight dip or flat line in sales, the product line is adjusted accordingly, sometimes resulting in dropped ammunition or even the firearms themselves. The time lines of most ammunition and firearms manufactures is ripe with examples.
Why this little diatribe? Self-sufficiency. Do not depend on the manufacturers for anything in the long run. If you want to continue to shoot your favorite firearms or a wildcat that the factories don't support, learn to reload, safely. Stock up on brass, powder, bullets, primers and reloading tools. Learn the process for yourself and be self-sufficient. You will never have to waste time whining about the cartridges or firearms that the factories dropped from their lines. Better than that, it's downright enjoyable and something that you can share with your families and friends.
Wildcats may come and go but with a bit of planning, you can continue to have the pleasure of shooting them for a long time to come. I shoot a lot of standard cartridges but I derive infinitely more pleasure from making wildcats and working up loads for them. Tinkering is fun and can be profitable.
I also don't worry about not having my ammunition when I leave home for a remote hunt. I plan ahead and get the ammunition there before I need it. Then I take some extra with me just in case. Planning and no need to worry. I have never been hunting and not had the proper ammunition. That's enough on that.
The .260 Rem. is a fine cartridge as all of us point out. The 6.5-06 is equally fine, more powderful and simple to create and load but not available from the factory. The 6.5-284 is very similar to the 6.5-06 in power, performance and according to some, holds an edge in accuracy. It has the distinction of having a great deal of component support from many of the manufacturers.
The biggest difference between the three cartridges is that the .260 is factory available in rifles and as ammunition while the other two rely on the reloader to feed them. Other than that, they are all mighty fine cartridges.
Best.0 -
I am not certain that I should say with pride, that I have 16 different cartridge dies on my loading bench. Or with a bit of shame, over admitting my addiction. I had more, but I usually let them go with the rifle. It was the 8mm-06 Ackley Improved that turned me off to wildcats. Before anyone gets riled, I admire anybody who enjoys building, creating and shooting wildcats. For me the stretch in terms of time, was just not worth the results. The rifle was a beauty built on a Third Reich Mauser action. Still had all the Waffenampts. The stock was Birdseye Maple with horn at the fore stock tip, grip cap and butt plate. The blue was deep, rich and black. Very little use showed. Long story short; once I worked up a load, the rifle would do no more then would my pre-64 M70 in 30-06. Fireforming the brass seemed to be a waste of time. The gent that bought the rifle, dies and cases, loved the thing.
I understand others love for the 6.5mm bullet, but owning a .270Win, I simply see no good reason to go that way. Couple years ago, the .280Rem was supposed to be on it's way of "knocking off the .270Win." That has not come to pass. In 1964, I can still remember Duffy's Gun Room owner telling me to trade in my .270Win on his new .284Win, 'cause that short action with rebated rim was going to put the .270Win out of action. Since then, the .284Win has died once and been resusitated. Note quote from Lyman 47th Reloading, copyright 1992, in the section on the .284Win. "Many claim that this type of cartridge design lends itself to feeding jams...." and later, "The cartridge never saw much interest and now is very close to extinction." Recently we've seen introduced the .270WSM which many writers are touting as better then it's parent cartridge, the now over 70 year old .270Win. My point: there seems to be no end to the new cartridges being introduced, even as the availabity of hunting is on the skids. The "new improved" cartridges come and go, some even move into the mainstream of general acceptance and last. But none seems to be quite good enough to replace a hard core of veneble cartridges that have been around, doing yeoman duty for decades.
roysclockgun0 -
quote:Originally posted by nononsense
Steven,
My Great Grandfather was a watchmaker. I got to see some of his work and his tools when I was extremely young. It was fascinating stuff for a youngster...
"...is a 6.5-06 coming..."
From Accurate Arms Powder Co.
6.5-06
This wildcat is based on the .30-06 case necked down to accept .264" diameter bullets. The 6.5-06 is very similar to the old .256 Newton cartridge loaded by the Western Cartridge Company from 1913 to 1938.
For fans of the 6.5mm bore, the 6.5-06 is an excellent choice. The cartridge cases are easy to form and the cartridge is suitable for long-range varmint shooting or hunting and even elk and moose with proper bullets.
There is no SAAMI pressure limit for the 6.5-06. The Maximum Average Pressure for the .25-06 Remington is 63,000 P.S.I. The 6.5-06 and the .25-06 are very similar. These loads do not exceed the pressure limit of the .25-06.
The 6.5-06 is a superb cartridge for both hunting and some of the various target competitions. It is reasonably balanced for the heavier bullets but can show signs of being slightly overbore when coupled with the lighter bullets. It also helps to have a longer barrel rather than a shorter one. My hunting rifle has a 27" barrel and does quite well using a 139 gr. bullet out past 500 yards on game.
The nice part is that cases can be made by simply necking 25-06 brass, which is how I do it for the hunting rifle. But I usually will use some RWS .270 Win. brass to make my competition cases because of the ability to have a longer neck. If anyone is considering to go with the 6.5/06, the better bet is to use 6.5/270 WIN. The longer neck helps to save throat life. And it gives me a way to separate my brass for each rifle.
Best.
HOW ACCURATE ARE YOUR COMPETITION ROUNDS???0 -
I agree, I see very little difference between the 6.5-06 and the .270 Winchester. The 6.5 bullets will have a slightly better BC The .270 will have slightly more velocity at max pressures and same bullet weight. quote:Originally posted by roysclockgun
I am not certain that I should say with pride, that I have 16 different cartridge dies on my loading bench. Or with a bit of shame, over admitting my addiction. I had more, but I usually let them go with the rifle. It was the 8mm-06 Ackley Improved that turned me off to wildcats. Before anyone gets riled, I admire anybody who enjoys building, creating and shooting wildcats. For me the stretch in terms of time, was just not worth the results. The rifle was a beauty built on a Third Reich Mauser action. Still had all the Waffenampts. The stock was Birdseye Maple with horn at the fore stock tip, grip cap and butt plate. The blue was deep, rich and black. Very little use showed. Long story short; once I worked up a load, the rifle would do no more then would my pre-64 M70 in 30-06. Fireforming the brass seemed to be a waste of time. The gent that bought the rifle, dies and cases, loved the thing.
I understand others love for the 6.5mm bullet, but owning a .270Win, I simply see no good reason to go that way. Couple years ago, the .280Rem was supposed to be on it's way of "knocking off the .270Win." That has not come to pass. In 1964, I can still remember Duffy's Gun Room owner telling me to trade in my .270Win on his new .284Win, 'cause that short action with rebated rim was going to put the .270Win out of action. Since then, the .284Win has died once and been resusitated. Note quote from Lyman 47th Reloading, copyright 1992, in the section on the .284Win. "Many claim that this type of cartridge design lends itself to feeding jams...." and later, "The cartridge never saw much interest and now is very close to extinction." Recently we've seen introduced the .270WSM which many writers are touting as better then it's parent cartridge, the now over 70 year old .270Win. My point: there seems to be no end to the new cartridges being introduced, even as the availabity of hunting is on the skids. The "new improved" cartridges come and go, some even move into the mainstream of general acceptance and last. But none seems to be quite good enough to replace a hard core of veneble cartridges that have been around, doing yeoman duty for decades.
roysclockgun0 -
quote:Originally posted by steve45
I agree, I see very little difference between the 6.5-06 and the .270 Winchester. The 6.5 bullets will have a slightly better BC The .270 will have slightly more velocity at max pressures and same bullet weight. quote:Originally posted by roysclockgun
I am not certain that I should say with pride, that I have 16 different cartridge dies on my loading bench. Or with a bit of shame, over admitting my addiction. I had more, but I usually let them go with the rifle. It was the 8mm-06 Ackley Improved that turned me off to wildcats. Before anyone gets riled, I admire anybody who enjoys building, creating and shooting wildcats. For me the stretch in terms of time, was just not worth the results. The rifle was a beauty built on a Third Reich Mauser action. Still had all the Waffenampts. The stock was Birdseye Maple with horn at the fore stock tip, grip cap and butt plate. The blue was deep, rich and black. Very little use showed. Long story short; once I worked up a load, the rifle would do no more then would my pre-64 M70 in 30-06. Fireforming the brass seemed to be a waste of time. The gent that bought the rifle, dies and cases, loved the thing.
I understand others love for the 6.5mm bullet, but owning a .270Win, I simply see no good reason to go that way. Couple years ago, the .280Rem was supposed to be on it's way of "knocking off the .270Win." That has not come to pass. In 1964, I can still remember Duffy's Gun Room owner telling me to trade in my .270Win on his new .284Win, 'cause that short action with rebated rim was going to put the .270Win out of action. Since then, the .284Win has died once and been resusitated. Note quote from Lyman 47th Reloading, copyright 1992, in the section on the .284Win. "Many claim that this type of cartridge design lends itself to feeding jams...." and later, "The cartridge never saw much interest and now is very close to extinction." Recently we've seen introduced the .270WSM which many writers are touting as better then it's parent cartridge, the now over 70 year old .270Win. My point: there seems to be no end to the new cartridges being introduced, even as the availabity of hunting is on the skids. The "new improved" cartridges come and go, some even move into the mainstream of general acceptance and last. But none seems to be quite good enough to replace a hard core of veneble cartridges that have been around, doing yeoman duty for decades.
roysclockgun
First, did you guys know you were responding to an eight year old thread?
Second, since the thought is back up and running, I'll put my $.02 in.
Things have changed since this thread was first posted. Back in '05 there were no super high BC .270 cal bullets. Now there are. But, there are no "off the shelf" tight twisted rifles to handle them. You will need to purchase a new barrel with a tight enough twist to handle the new long/sleek for caliber .270 bullets if you want them to do something. And they will. But, it will take time.
That said, there are plenty of 6.5 bullets on the shelf that handily beat the .270 'standard' bullets that you can fire from a standard 1-10" twisted .270 barrel. In the end, the higher BC is going to win every time. As good as a .270 is, it won't beat any full power 6.5 in a long range shoot. As for power, if you have enough to kill at extended ranges, you have enough to kill at moderate ranges. Having more power at moderate ranges then becomes a waste. Which to me is exacerbated due to the fact the 'standard' .270 bullets lose so much more steam at long ranges.
Yes, a 6.5-06 is worth the build. Usually, the tighter twisted 6.5's will also handle as heavy of a bullet as the .270 as well.0 -
Well Im a hunter that limits my shots to 500 yds or less. At that range with hunting bullets there would be very little difference. 0
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