AdamsQuailHunter / Iver johnson 410 dbl
Mr QuailHunter I picked up a Iver johnson hercules 410 double today. It is in good to very good condition. It has double triggers and auto ejts. Are these guns very common? What is a real world price? The owner recieved the gun 47 years ago when he was 10 yrs old he is now 57. Did they make this gun in 28 ga? Have you seen or handled the skeeter model? I've never handled such a small frame 410 such as this,what a sweet little gun. I would be greatfull for any info. Thankyou
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My gosh - being asked for by name!!!!!!The Iver Johnson Hercules Grade has been around since 1918 or so up until the end of WWII according to some references. Others say they were discontinued in 1943 due to the demands of making arms for WWII. As to who is right -- I don't have a clue. I assume that the frame is blued as opposed to being case colored -- if so it was made after 1936.They were made in 12, 16, 20, 28, and 410 gauge and had various barrel length and chokes. Extractors and double triggers were standard, but ejectors as well as single triggers -- Miller nonselective and selective were available at extra cost.She should come to your shoulder like greased lightening. In open country -- she is a quail/snipe machine. By the way -- check your chambers they were made in both 2-1/2 and 3 inch chambers. In pine flatland and brush as we have here -- a 20 gauge is much better.Real world --- 410 + ejectors will go for $800 at any gun show in Tallahassee or Jacksonville.Ever seen a Skeeter - one in a show in Fort Walton Beach. Big Bucks --- WAAAAAAY out of my price range.If you ever see a Iver Johnson in 28 gauge and you don't want it - PLEASE get in contact with me. If I can afford it --- might have to eat peanut butter and jelly sandwiches for 3 months but ---- I will buy it. I may faint in disbelief at an Iver Johnson in 28 that I can actually afford. They are scarce as hen's teeth.Enjoy the 410 --- she is a fine machine... 0 -
A Hercules .410 w/ejectorsis much rarer than a Skeeter although it won't bring the $1800 that a Skeeter will. When I collected American .410 doubles, I had more Skeeters than any other, but that was because of the beautiful wood. They were about as heavy as the 5100 Stevens .410s. 0 -
anytime you cut on a gun, you destroy its book value. if you had to use steel wool to get the info off of it, i would be fair to assume its worth more in parts or sentimental value than a fair book value.
former air operations officer SEAL Delivery Vehicle Team 2. former navy skeet team, former navy rifle/pistol team member. co-owner skeetmaster tubes inc.. owner/operator professional shooting instruction. NRA certified instructor.0 -
it seem that there are several people here that have more knowledge of iver johnson double barrels than i do, but i am going to comment on a couple of things. the earliest catalog reference i have on a iver johnson double barrel hercule grade is 1927. there are earlier listing for a iver johnson double barrel with mono-bloc construction between 1918 and 1920. the 1921 catalog shows a double barrel with the appearance of the latter hercule grade models but it is simply called the iver johnson double barrel. in the mid 1920s (1927 catalog) all the features athat we associate with the hercules grade were available. the available options take a full page to list. the 1927 catalog is the earliest i have showing a 410 bore double, called simple the iver johnson double barrel. the name hercules grade appears in the 1927 catalog in connection with 'supertrap hammerless double barrel'(no 410 bore listed for the super trap). the next catalog 1931/32 the hercules grade is listed as a seperate model and a full page for the hercules grade 410 bore and another page for the 410 bore 'skeet-er' these two models are listed as special built.
in my research of iver johnson's arms & cycle works firarms i have not found any records or indications that any double barrel shotgun were manufactured after 1942. and the single barrel champions were only manufactured in limited numbers after 1956.
one last comment about the champion 410 single barrel 'militarybranch' asked about. his single barrel has had the barrel cut it is not standard factory length. the patent date marked on his shotgun is the patent iver johnson used to manufacture a small bore gun on a standard size frame. his shotgun was manufactured after 1919 and before the mid 1930s when this marking was dropped.
i don't know if all this matters to anyone but i love talking about iver johnson's arms & cycle works firearms and please excuse any typos
bill0 -
You are way too modest. I absolutely had no idea that IJ made a .410 double prior to the Hercules and Skeeter. I was aware of the super trap. As soon as I get home, I will check my very early Stoegers. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by b.goforth
it seem that there are several people here that have more knowledge of iver johnson double barrels than i do, but i am going to comment on a couple of things. the earliest catalog reference i have on a iver johnson double barrel hercule grade is 1927. there are earlier listing for a iver johnson double barrel with mono-bloc construction between 1918 and 1920. the 1921 catalog shows a double barrel with the appearance of the latter hercule grade models but it is simply called the iver johnson double barrel. in the mid 1920s (1927 catalog) all the features athat we associate with the hercules grade were available. the available options take a full page to list. the 1927 catalog is the earliest i have showing a 410 bore double, called simple the iver johnson double barrel. the name hercules grade appears in the 1927 catalog in connection with 'supertrap hammerless double barrel'(no 410 bore listed for the super trap). the next catalog 1931/32 the hercules grade is listed as a seperate model and a full page for the hercules grade 410 bore and another page for the 410 bore 'skeet-er' these two models are listed as special built.
in my research of iver johnson's arms & cycle works firarms i have not found any records or indications that any double barrel shotgun were manufactured after 1942. and the single barrel champions were only manufactured in limited numbers after 1956.
one last comment about the champion 410 single barrel 'militarybranch' asked about. his single barrel has had the barrel cut it is not standard factory length. the patent date marked on his shotgun is the patent iver johnson used to manufacture a small bore gun on a standard size frame. his shotgun was manufactured after 1919 and before the mid 1930s when this marking was dropped.
i don't know if all this matters to anyone but i love talking about iver johnson's arms & cycle works firearms and please excuse any typos
bill
Bill,
Now I know why I was unaware of the IJ shotgun that preceded the Hercules. My 1926 Stoeger catalog only lists IJ revolvers. It is just as well. If I had know about it when I was collecting .410 doubles, I would have driven myself crazy trying to find one.0 -
militarybranch,
sorry i made a mistake on your gender. i think its great when the ladies take an interest in the older firearms.
neither the standard size frame in 410 bore nor the small frame in 410 bore were ever cataloged with a 18 1/4 inch barrel length. the standard size frame in 410 bore weight was about 5 1/2 pounds and the small frame weight was about 4 pounds. standard barrel length on all iver johnson single barrel 410 guns were 26 & 28 inches with the majority being 26. the standard finish on all iver johnson champion single barrels was case hardened frame, blue trigger guard and browned barrel (blued barrels came along after wwII). the number behind the trigger guard is the serial number but there are no known shotgun factory records to help in sorting out the serial number of the different models, they are not much help. i can identify the single barrel to a given era if i can see them in person or have good quality pictures. the small frame champion model 39 was manufactured between 1909 and about 1918 and the 410 bore was not introduced in it until about 1911/1912. the 410 bore was introduced in the stanard size frame about 1919. at that time the model 39 was discontinued. the earlier model 36 (standard size frame) name was dropped and it was called simply 'iver johnson champion single barrel gun'. i hope all this is not to confusing and is of help to you.
almost forgot new factory original butt stocks for the standard size frame were available from numrich arms (e-gunparts.com) at one time and they show up on the auction sites often (even e-bay).
for joel;
i ran into the same problem with stoegers shooter bible. i guess they didn't want to sell american single barrels as the h&r single barrels are not listed in my 1939 edition.
bill0
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