Black powder cartridge reloading question
I'm just getting into reloading blackpowder cartridges and have a few questions. I know the bullet must be seated on the powder charge- ie, the case must be full. What if I want a gas check and no Hornady model disc is available? I've heard of all sorts of arcane things from milkweed to cornmeal; does this go above the powder, and then the bullet is seated, compressing the load slightly? Also, I know some guns, such as the Mauser 71 can take smokeless powder in lieu of BP, using data from any good reloading manual. What about substituting Pyrodex for BP? Does the case need to be filled then? How about Pyrodex tablets?
"...hit your enemy in the belly, and kick him when he is down, and boil his prisoners in oil- if you take any- and torture his women and children. Then people will keep clear of you..." -Admiral of the Fleet Lord Fisher, speaking at the Hague Peace Conference in 1899.
"...hit your enemy in the belly, and kick him when he is down, and boil his prisoners in oil- if you take any- and torture his women and children. Then people will keep clear of you..." -Admiral of the Fleet Lord Fisher, speaking at the Hague Peace Conference in 1899.
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JONK: I CAN ONLY TELL YOU MY EXP. WITH BLACK POWDER. I WAS GIVEN A 45-70 TRAP DOOR ALTERED RIFLE. SOME BODY CUT THIS THING DOWN TO CARBINE BARREL AND REFINISHED IT. A VERY GOOD JOB. I GOT SOME 45-70 BRASS AND BULLETS; LEAD 405 GRAIN AND FILLED THESE UP WITH 15 GRAINS OF UNIQUE. TRIPED ONE OFF AND GOT A FACE FULL OF SPENT GASES! THE BRASS HAD BLACK AROUND IT BECAUSE THERE WAS NOT ENOUGH PRESSURE TO SEAL THE CHAMBER. BUT IF YOU LOAD IT UP ENOUGH TO SEAL, THE ACTION WILL LET GO! SO I LOADED THESE UP WITH 70 GRAINS OF FFFG BLACK AND NOW THIS CARBINE SHOOTS TO THE SIGHTS EVERY TIME. MY FRIENDS ARE AMAZED! THE CARBINE ROUNDS WERE LOADED AT THE FACTORY WITH 55 GRAINS OF BLACK. NO GAS SEAL OR ANYTHING FANCY.
"START THE BALL ROLLING THERE, TECTOR"0 -
Jonk, Lots of ?s here. Giving it my best shot . . . . The only loads I've ever seen discussed where a loose filler matl such as cream of wheat, kapok, etc. was used were w/ smokeless powders. This was a fairly common practice prior to 1965 +/- for light loads in large cases, such as magnums or larger BP rounds. It has always been somewhat controversial with some folks swearing by it & others, from experience or theory, swearing that it is not necessarily the best or safest practice. YPYM&TYC. I line up w/ those who don't do it. But I never saw it suggested w/ BP. I've been a cartridge collector for 30 years & have never seen a specimen where a loose filler was used. If there's a gallery or short range loading, there's something like a wad (have seen many types) seated over the BP. I don't claim that it hasn't been done and done successfully, only that in my experience I've not seen it that I can recall and if loose fillers were a normal practice I believe I would have. From your inquiry about GCs, I have to presume you are talking about a straight case cartridge? Gas checks - Lyman also makes them. Don't know if they have dif sizes than Hornady or, if so, in the size(s) you need. Train of conscious . . . . I have a series of punches from an old time custom loader along w/ sheet cork & felt that I believe he used to make shot loads for assorted cartridges. I also have felt & sheet teflon scrap acquired from a prior industrial position which I squirreled away with which to play when I found the proper round tuit. Haven't yet. Also have some sheet colloidal graphite which one presses the case neck into before seating the bullet (Industrial Products Co., POB 14, Bedford, MA 01730 - this address may well be obsolete & the company defunct). Any, all, or none of these might work. And in tip of the hat to ATLA & tort lawyers everywhere, I'M *NOT* RECOMMENDING ANY OF THEM!!Pyrodex used to make a "CTG" grade powder as a substitute for loading BP rounds. I would be hesitant to play games w/ the pellets.Well, FWIW, there it is; I hope it helps. Contact me directly if I can help you further.
"Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. Moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue." Cicero "Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have the exact measure of the injustice and wrong which will be imposed on them." Frederick Douglasstcg25@hotmail.com[This message has been edited by Iconoclast (edited 10-13-2001).]0 -
This has all been helpful. The reason I asked about loose filler is that a freind who shoots percussion revolvers often uses it over his charge- that is over the BALL now that I think of it- to take up extra space so he doesn't need so much grease. Had I thought about that I would have had an answer.
"...hit your enemy in the belly, and kick him when he is down, and boil his prisoners in oil- if you take any- and torture his women and children. Then people will keep clear of you..." -Admiral of the Fleet Lord Fisher, speaking at the Hague Peace Conference in 1899.0 -
BP is funny stuff. It is almost impossible to have a catastrophic failure with BP unless you violate the primary rule: DO NOT LEAVE AN AIR SPACE!!! I shoot BP revolvers and use dry loose filler (cream of wheat) over a reduced powder charge and seat the ball on top. The guy who was loading the filler on top of the ball is doing it wrong. You want to put grease on top of the ball to prevent flashover. I also shoot my trapdoor 45/70, but with smokeless. I use H-110 (around 20 gr, if I remember correctly) and a magnum primer to insure full ignition with such a volumetrically small charge. This is smokeless, and the air space actually reduces pressure and is not a problem. With the moderate loads, smokeless or BP, that are appropriate for the trapdoor, you need gas checks like you need a hole in the head. As a matter of fact there is a school of thought that they might be dangerous in light loads.Have fun.Morty 0 -
jonk, as stated in the above posts, there are a number of things to watch for; number one is the "no air space or gap between powder and bullet". If you are serious, you can use a drop tube to pack the powder more uniformly, use a GOOD soft lube made for BP, use a fairly soft alloy for bullets. I don't know if you still have my email address, but if you want, we can talk more off this site if you post your address. Emery 0 -
I've been shooting gas checked 185gr bullets over 35 gr of pyrodex P in my 32-40 Marlin for a couple years now. I haven't had any problems. I buy these bullets from a retired guy who casts to keep busy. Only thing special I do is melt off his lube and smear T-C wonder lube in it's place. When I shoot my own home cast 165 grainers, I cut a wad from an old paper milk carton, All I used in the begining was an old case with the mouth sharpened. If you decide to try this you will soon be buying a proper punch though. But it is a good way to experiment.Oh, just because I'm stupid enough to try and make old obsolete stuff shoot, doesn't mean I recomend others do it. Just coverin my butt against lawyers. 0 -
oops, those 185 gr bullets are gas checked by the way. 0 -
I also have a cut down trapdoor I was given by my grandfather. I've been using 3031 & 405 gr cast bullets for over thirty years. 0 -
Who ?Me,I'm just waiting around to watch tht guy put the cream of wheat on top of his balls and then adding grease.That has got to be interesting. 0
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