Damage to my pistol - help please
I bought an Erma 380 'Luger' about 2 months ago. Paid too much I'm sure, because I wanted one in 'NIB' condition. It was made about 1967.
Seller was great, gun arrived in 'NIB' condition. Took it apart and cleaned it about 5 times. It was a bear, to say the least. Had someone else break it down and they felt the same.
Took it to a gunsmith recommended by two people. Older guy - served in WWII and all. Called a week later, not ready. Called two weeks later, he said it was all 'way too tight' and he was using a grinding compound to 'loosen it up'. "All these Lugers need to be loose and this one is just too tight." I freaked and went over the next day to see what was going on. Well, my 'NIB' pistol has the blue rubbed off the rails, blue off the back end and knurl marks across the shoulder of the action, never mind that the bluing is gone there too. I had intended to take it back home with me, ready or not, but I couldn't do it. First of all, it already looked like it had seen service in WWII - was all beat up. Second, it would have been like kicking a puppy. I would have felt bad. He was very conscientous (?) about doing it right (as in don't take off too much and make sure you are taking of the right part. He just didn't understand my desire to keep it pristine and probably didn't even see the damage, I think he was working by feel. So, I wrote off the damage, decided I had now paid WAY to much for a beat up gun and told him I would check back after the holidays. Maybe he wouldn't make it total trash in the end.
Today I get a call, the gun is ready. He has shot 2 clips and it is working fine.
Sooo, now I have a pistol that needs the grooves created by mashing the knurled part of the knuckle on the back of the action removed, the 2 dents made on the back end removed and re-bluing. And, I have yet to fire it!
What is the best product to re-blue these areas once I have reshaped them ? He recommended 44/40 or Super Blue. He got the rails, where he had created some clearance, sort of back to the right color, but he did not even see the rest of the damage. He is about 80 and I doubt he remembered the damage and he probably couldn't see it.
There is a gun show this weekend, where I might be able to locate the necessary stuff.
Appreciate your input and suggestions.
spiny
Seller was great, gun arrived in 'NIB' condition. Took it apart and cleaned it about 5 times. It was a bear, to say the least. Had someone else break it down and they felt the same.
Took it to a gunsmith recommended by two people. Older guy - served in WWII and all. Called a week later, not ready. Called two weeks later, he said it was all 'way too tight' and he was using a grinding compound to 'loosen it up'. "All these Lugers need to be loose and this one is just too tight." I freaked and went over the next day to see what was going on. Well, my 'NIB' pistol has the blue rubbed off the rails, blue off the back end and knurl marks across the shoulder of the action, never mind that the bluing is gone there too. I had intended to take it back home with me, ready or not, but I couldn't do it. First of all, it already looked like it had seen service in WWII - was all beat up. Second, it would have been like kicking a puppy. I would have felt bad. He was very conscientous (?) about doing it right (as in don't take off too much and make sure you are taking of the right part. He just didn't understand my desire to keep it pristine and probably didn't even see the damage, I think he was working by feel. So, I wrote off the damage, decided I had now paid WAY to much for a beat up gun and told him I would check back after the holidays. Maybe he wouldn't make it total trash in the end.
Today I get a call, the gun is ready. He has shot 2 clips and it is working fine.
Sooo, now I have a pistol that needs the grooves created by mashing the knurled part of the knuckle on the back of the action removed, the 2 dents made on the back end removed and re-bluing. And, I have yet to fire it!
What is the best product to re-blue these areas once I have reshaped them ? He recommended 44/40 or Super Blue. He got the rails, where he had created some clearance, sort of back to the right color, but he did not even see the rest of the damage. He is about 80 and I doubt he remembered the damage and he probably couldn't see it.
There is a gun show this weekend, where I might be able to locate the necessary stuff.
Appreciate your input and suggestions.
spiny
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Ouch, the Luger (like any handgun) needs to be used a bit before it works 100%. The gun would loosen up if it had a few hundred rounds put through it. As far as repairing the blueing, I'd have a smithy hot blue it otherwise it may get patchy. The cold-blue doesn't seem to wear as well as the hot blue and starts to show after some use. Sorry to hear about this, sounds like he was more of a hobbyist than a Luger expert.[:(] 0 -
Joey - It is how he has made his living for many, many years. But, he is just too old to do any fine work I think. I couldn't nail him on it. I took him Christmas dinner today when I picked up my gun. And I didn't complain. Just couldn't do it. 0 -
Try Blue Wonder.You can ourder it from[www.thefiringpin.com]If you apply it and it doesn't match exactly you can put a second coat to match.I have used it to match the blueing on a couple of different guns ranging from medium to dark blue and have had no trouble matching it with the surounding blue.CW
1.Before I got married I spent half my money on women and guns,THE REST I WASTED!
2.KILL EM' ALL AND LET ALLAH SORT EM' OUT!0 -
Thanks Dr Watson - also known as C! I will look for it at the show. If it is not there, will order some per instructions.
spiny
'not all who wander are lost'0 -
Gee Spiny, I guess I missed the whole WWII part. Feel kinda bad now. Poor old guy probably can't see too well anymore.[:(] 0 -
Joey - that is what I said.
From a thread I posted previously here, it seemed that stuff sticking and the gun being almost impossible to re-assemble after breakdown was not a good sign. I didn't want to loose a rear pin or something the first day out.
Had a friend, with good hand strength try to put it back together after breakdown, and it still took two of us to get the final pin back in. That is the pin in front of the trigger that holds the barrel in place. You have to push the barrel forward as the pin has a notch out area that has to clear both parts to shoot home. It is a bitch. Easy to remove, not to get back in. It is still almost impossible, but not quite. Also, the slide was sticking very badly. I like the little thing and want to be able to use it for a long time I think. Really, I would like a Stoeger NEW Luger. But, I am po.
spiny
'not all who wander are lost'0 -
Sometimes things do not turn out the way we would like. spiny probably was much more gracious than many of us would have been under like circumstances.
The description of the gunsmith would have made me think more than twice before leaving my gun with him. If I decided to take a chance, I would have discussed it to death first, constantly repeating my wishes and warnings, and getting a verbal commitment as to how it would be done and the results expected. I usually write a transmittal letter anytime I have to entrust something to someone else to do work on my item. (Getting warranty service is the usual situation where I am forced to have someone else work on my property.) I spell out in detail what is to be done, and I give specific warnings about what concerns me. (For example, if dropping off a car for warranty work, I ask the service manager in writing to be sure that the finish is protected from damage and scratches, that the seats are protected from dirty clothes, that all brackets be installed exactly as removed, etc..) If the warnings are ignored and damage occurs, you then have a clear case for pursuing correction.
This unfortunate situation is a good example of why we gun enthusiasts must do our own work if we have the tools (not many of us have reboring machines, etc.), and particularly must not immediately conclude some work is required on a new gun. I do not understand why, if spiny was willing to spend enough to get a New-In-The-Box pistol over thirty years old, that spiny immediately thought a gunsmith was needed make it feel like a well-used gun. New guns are often tight. (Ruger Standard pistols often cannot be disassembled without force being used to separate the barrel/receiver from the grip frame.) Apparently, the Erma could still be disassembled (six times even!) in the regular manner, even though with some difficulties.
I would have tried shooting it first (again, why buy a NIB old gun if intending to shoot it?), and if it did not work correctly, I would have tried to figure out why it was malfucnctioning. If the reason was that it was "too tight" to operate without malfunction, I would then have tried to lap it in or something similar myself. (Brownells sells lapping compound in many grits, none of which are expensive.) Any gunsmith would have done exactly the same, as did the gunsmith mentioned.
Blue Wonder will probably produce a very satisfactory finish in the areas you mention. I have been extremely pleased with how it works. It colored some cast steel for me that would not color with any other cold process. A hot reblue would require removal of the original finish, and, for a gun bought because it was NIB, that seems a a shame.
Let us know how it turns out.0 -
JudgeC. - I am too trusting, that is true. It was a mistake I made and now I have to pay a price. Oh well. Better luck next time. My other Erma is quite old and now listed in my will. I love it, but it might need to be retired. So, I paid a big price for sentiment. I am used to fixing things for myself, but too ignorant when it comes to guns to move forward with more than clean it and take care of it. You are fortunate to have the knowledge and ability that you have acquired. I don't have it. So, I am going blind and will have to learn expensive lessons along the way. I am asking for help in these areas because of my lack of experise. Perhaps I am too cautious. But to go out and fire a gun under these conditions was more than I was up to. I needed to learn how to take it apart and take care of it first. I will be shooting on my own. The feedback I got from other members was that their experience varied - some did well with this model, some watched it blow up on them. So, I proceeded with caution. The father of my children bought me a gun some years ago, 30-06, to keep the deer out of the peas with. Turns out it was quite old and could not handle the rounds of today. Evidently, I am lucky to still have a full face. Since that time, I don't trust when it comes to guns. I have been shooting since I was 3, but with many breaks along the way. I am a good shot, but need more experience. Perhaps your recommendation will be part of that learning process.
I will look for 'Blue Wonder' at the show on Saturday. Thank you.
I will also be looking for good books along the way and tools too. I have a full set of standard hand tools, 3 drills, 2 sanders, router, drill press and various other things. I work as a maintenance technician, currently unemployed and going back to school. The telecommunicans industry meltdown cost me my job. Been there 11 years.My first semester will include 2 welding classes and machining. The machining class will take up 15 hours a week. Perhaps I will learn to be as comfortable with metal as I am with wood.
Thank you for your help. And by the way, I wanted NIB to get the manual and pass this gun on to another kid. Yes, I planned to shoot it. I didn't want a 'burned' out gun. Bet you have never seen the other Erma I have - no one has seen that model.
thanks
spiny
'not all who wander are lost'0 -
spiny:
If you have the maintenance skills you mention, and the ability to undertake the new courses you mention, you have the inate ability to do about anything you need to do with a gun, unless special tools are required.
I have been taking things apart since I was a small boy, and generally have been able to learn about mechanisms and how things work. Most of the time, taking something mechanical apart will reveal the source of the malfunction. (That is why things that operate without any physical movement, such as transistors, are impossible to repair by the "look and see" method. They are therefore the work of the Devil!)
I can understand having a rifle blow up in your face would change your approach to firearms. Still, a new gun is unlikely to blow up in one's face, and firing is usually the first order of business, after being sure the bore is clear. I cannot imagine any original .30-06 not being able to handle the round because the pressure specifications have never changed, unless it was damaged some way. I wonder if you were not given some old military surplus rifle that was poorly rechambered to .30-06, thus causing excessive headspace or the like?
Good luck in your new training. I am sure it will turn out well for you, and will generate a new job. Perhaps then you can look for another NIB Erma!0 -
JudgeC - You got it right. I will purchase another NIB in the future I suspect.
Transistors are one of the reasons 'board level troublshooting' is not worth the investiment. Send it back or throw it out. If the voltage coming out is not what it should be, trash it. Been there, done that. I work with electrical, electronics, hydraulics, and all the other 'ics' out there to maintain and keep a plant running. It is really interesting to haul something out to the trash that cost $5,000.00 two years ago. Or to pull something in and make it run when it cost $100,000.00 yesterday. Like it.
The 30-06 was left over from many years ago, I want to say prior to 1950 at least. If that caliber was made around the 20's, that is what it was. That is the date that sticks in my head, but it is an old head! Anyway, it was not designed for what you can buy today.
Had a brother, he got to take things apart. Some things do, or did, come with gender. Got to go hunting twice. Got to clean game a lot more times! Fished a lot though! I learned to take things apart much later. Also learned that if you trash something, it is not the end of the world. Just an opportunity. Move on. Life goes on. A bit of money wasted is not the end of the world. Waste it repeatly though, that is a different issue. Learn and grow is the goal.
Thanks and keep in touch. Will let ya know what I find at the gun show. I suspect they are pretty 'low class' here, compared to other parts of the country, but I plan to have a good time.
Can you recommend any good books? Love to read and learn.
thanks,
spiny
'not all who wander are lost'0
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