98/05 Butcher sawback bayonet
A fellow member posted a question awhile ago about a bayonet he has but didn't know how to post a pic. Here it is:[img]http://gallery.alloutdoorschat.com/endofwork/December 21, 2002.jpg[/img] He relates markings as follows: On the back of the frog there is 12p stamped in the
leather; on the flat of the blade next to the hilt it is marked C.G.HAENEL
(arched) w/ SUHL in the arch. On the top edge between the sawteeth & hilt
there is a "crown " w" 12";; also opposite of the release button there are a
couple more very small crowns w/ un readable marks??? from your description
of the flash guard I don't believe it has one.
I have already told him that he has a 98/05 Sawback butcher bayonet, the story of the removal of sawbacks, and that it has a 1st pattern scabbard. He says there is no flashgaurd. He is primarily interested in value but also any other info. This is the info I have already provided:However, based on the pics, as I suspected you do indeed have a German
M98-05 "butcher" sawback bayonet. There is an a/A and n/A model; denoting
presence or absence of a flashgaurd. This is a small piece of metal on top
of the grips, though not completely covering the tops to gaurd from fire
from the muzzle of the gun. Basically if there is a bump you have it, if
not you don't. It might affect value a little though not much, and if you
sell you should list if it has it or not. You have the first pattern
scabbard, that is leather. Later models, starting in 1915 switched to blued
metal. The earlier scabbard is more desirable. These bayonets aren't
exactly rare, but are uncommon. Many had the sawbacks removed as allied
troops in WW1 often treated soldiers with such beastly weapons rather poorly
when captured. Yours appears to be in nice shape overall, and it is very
good that you have the scabbard and frog. I'm not a professional but I do
have about 30 bayonets in my collection and have owned a few butcher
bayonets. A lot depends on markings, date, arsenal, etc., but I would
expect this piece to sell for a minimum of $100, and perhaps as much as
$200, higher for rare makers or marks. I admitedly don't know which makers
are rare. Last butcher blade I had I sold for $56 with scabbard, no frog,
in worse shape, and it had no sawback. Tell me, what are the markings? Did
you want me to post these pictures on the net to your original topic for
more input? If you want to sell, I'd put it up at ebay as you should get a
fair price there. A look at sawbacks selling there run $25 to $200; $25 for
rusty, no scabbard, etc. $200 for mint, my guess is yours would hit about
$110-$125.
Is my info kosher? Any furhter info would be welcome.
"...hit your enemy in the belly, and kick him when he is down, and boil his prisoners in oil- if you take any- and torture his women and children. Then people will keep clear of you..." -Admiral of the Fleet Lord Fisher, speaking at the Hague Peace Conf
leather; on the flat of the blade next to the hilt it is marked C.G.HAENEL
(arched) w/ SUHL in the arch. On the top edge between the sawteeth & hilt
there is a "crown " w" 12";; also opposite of the release button there are a
couple more very small crowns w/ un readable marks??? from your description
of the flash guard I don't believe it has one.
I have already told him that he has a 98/05 Sawback butcher bayonet, the story of the removal of sawbacks, and that it has a 1st pattern scabbard. He says there is no flashgaurd. He is primarily interested in value but also any other info. This is the info I have already provided:However, based on the pics, as I suspected you do indeed have a German
M98-05 "butcher" sawback bayonet. There is an a/A and n/A model; denoting
presence or absence of a flashgaurd. This is a small piece of metal on top
of the grips, though not completely covering the tops to gaurd from fire
from the muzzle of the gun. Basically if there is a bump you have it, if
not you don't. It might affect value a little though not much, and if you
sell you should list if it has it or not. You have the first pattern
scabbard, that is leather. Later models, starting in 1915 switched to blued
metal. The earlier scabbard is more desirable. These bayonets aren't
exactly rare, but are uncommon. Many had the sawbacks removed as allied
troops in WW1 often treated soldiers with such beastly weapons rather poorly
when captured. Yours appears to be in nice shape overall, and it is very
good that you have the scabbard and frog. I'm not a professional but I do
have about 30 bayonets in my collection and have owned a few butcher
bayonets. A lot depends on markings, date, arsenal, etc., but I would
expect this piece to sell for a minimum of $100, and perhaps as much as
$200, higher for rare makers or marks. I admitedly don't know which makers
are rare. Last butcher blade I had I sold for $56 with scabbard, no frog,
in worse shape, and it had no sawback. Tell me, what are the markings? Did
you want me to post these pictures on the net to your original topic for
more input? If you want to sell, I'd put it up at ebay as you should get a
fair price there. A look at sawbacks selling there run $25 to $200; $25 for
rusty, no scabbard, etc. $200 for mint, my guess is yours would hit about
$110-$125.
Is my info kosher? Any furhter info would be welcome.
"...hit your enemy in the belly, and kick him when he is down, and boil his prisoners in oil- if you take any- and torture his women and children. Then people will keep clear of you..." -Admiral of the Fleet Lord Fisher, speaking at the Hague Peace Conf
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Hi John! I think that your appraisal is in the ballpark it looks like a nice sawback,but hardly mint. It is,as you say,a first model scabbard. The bayonet was made in 1912 (W 12) By C.G. Haenel in the city of Suhl. Haenel was a primary maker of swords and bayonets for the German Army and also bayonets for export. They also made a better grade line of knives and forks for the civilian trade. Saw back bayonets were issued to Pioneer (Engineer) troops and to senior Sergeants as a badge of rank. Bayonets from this era shuold be unit marked,something like RG 167 K 3 214 meaning Rifle Regiment 167 Company 3 bayonet number 214 and may also have been numbered to the rifle. Hope that this is of some help, Scout 0 -
Thanks guys for all the info. the hist. of the bayo. has been real intresting.
Thanks,
Muskyguide [:)][:)]0
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