FROMMER STOP .32 ACP pistol/opinions&experiances
i have a chance to aquire a FEGYVERGYER es GEPGYER "FROMMER STOP" semiautomatic pistol in 7.65x17mm (.32 ACP). the price is very low, and the gun is in good working order. its a long recoil design, 7 shot mag, hungarian pistol. its a model 1912M. there are no military markings on the gun.
its a bit of an oddball curiosity, but its cheap, and despite its awkward looking design and complexity, my reference materials say it has a good reputation for reliability under field conditions.the ammunition is cheap and easy to find.
does anybody have one??? has anybody fired one??? what is a Frommer Stop 12M in NRA VERY GOOD worth??? any opinions, references, or experiance???
i seem to be finding some oddball guns it great shape lately. is this a good addition to my modest collection???thanx, mike.
What other dungeon is so dark as ones own heart, what jailer so inexorable as ones own mind.
its a bit of an oddball curiosity, but its cheap, and despite its awkward looking design and complexity, my reference materials say it has a good reputation for reliability under field conditions.the ammunition is cheap and easy to find.
does anybody have one??? has anybody fired one??? what is a Frommer Stop 12M in NRA VERY GOOD worth??? any opinions, references, or experiance???
i seem to be finding some oddball guns it great shape lately. is this a good addition to my modest collection???thanx, mike.
What other dungeon is so dark as ones own heart, what jailer so inexorable as ones own mind.
0
-
Hello Mike, I have seen quite a few of these floating around the old Eastern Bloc and even have a friend in Bulgaria who's father had one stashed away since before WWII. The old guy hid it from the king, then from the communists, and now the son is hiding it from the "Democartic" government. The pistol itself used a long recoil action with a strange sort of non rotating/rotating bolt. It was designed by Rudolf Fommer and was used by Hungarian forces during WWI. After the was production continued and the pistol was marketed commercialy as the Minta-19. there were over 300,000 made so they are not really rare.
If you are not totally clear as to the make up of the Frommer it has three main parts: Barrel, bolt, and receiver. Unlike most automatics the Frommer's receiver contains the entire action of the pistol, it cover the entire bolt, barrel, and and carries the lock and frame for the grips (stocks). The entire frame is one piece and quite thin to reduce weight. The upper portion of the receiver consists of two cylinders; one which houses the barrel and bolt and the other containing the TWO recoil springs. The action of the pistol is rather complicarted as there are coil springs inside, plus some pins, lugs and other items.
The barrel is the heaviest part of the pistol and is milled out on the right side for ejection and below for feeding. The inner surfaces of the breech are cut with guides for the bolt lock and need to be kept very clean. The bolt itself has two parts: The cylinder and the head. The cylinder has the corresponding grooves to engage the cuts in the barrel. The bolt reciprocates but does not truely rotate in a way that we would expect. The actual firing action of the pistol is so complicated that it defies my written description. Pull the trigger and hope everything lines up into place and the pistol fires.
These are not bad pistols but are an example of extreme complication; A long recoil, fully locked breech in a .32 ACP? When you fire this gun the bolt and barrel recoil locked togther for the full length of the cartridge case. When it reaches the limit of recoil the barrel stops, the bolt is held to the rear, and then the barrel moves forward. The power to do this is provided by TWO recoil springs which sit in that ugly tube on top of the barrel. Both of the springs are compressed during recoil, but once rearward action stops, one spring pushes the barrel back into position and the second spring returns the bolt to battery- Could not be simpler! This pistol was too complicated and expensive to compete with its contemporeries like the Ortgies.
I have shot these Frommers before and these are my opinions of the pistol: The shape is very bad, the grip needs to be slopped more to allow for a more natural point and there is too much weight above the top of the hand. The long recoil action gives the impression that the pistol kicks harder than you'd expect from a .32, much harder than my Ortgies or Mausers. The heavy barrel and violent action also tend to throw off the point of aim and the gun seems to always shoot high. My friends in Bulgaria consider me to be America's leading firearms dealer and expert (Now, if the American public would just treat me the same way) and my friend wanted my to disasemble and clean his Frommer- NOT A CHANCE! I saw my old boss do this once in our shop and I would never try it, way too complex. In my opinion the Frommer is the reason the term Curio and Relic was coined. Great for collecting but not much good for shooting. Once again, my opinions.
Mark T. Christian0 -
According to EZELL, "Handguns Of The World" the 7.65 caliber Frommer Stop was used extensively as a service pistol during the First World War by the Honved which were the Hungarian component of the Austro-Hungarian Army. After the end of the war it was issued as the official service pistol of the Hungarian Army. They were known as the "Model 19 Pistol" when used by the Hungarians after the war. Apparently they were made in great quantity over the period when they were being used as military handguns as EZELL cites serial numbers as high as 329,000 in his article.
Here is a very informative Web-Site full of excellent information regarding the F - S.
http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Gorge/4653/frommer.htm0
Please sign in to leave a comment.
Comments
2 comments