Non-corrosive 7.62 x 39 Ammo?
Guys: I have a friend who owns a decent Egyptian-made AK-47, and he'd like to keep it as nice as he can. Consequently---and after reading a book on AK-47s called "The Complete Kalashnikov Family of Assault Rifles" by Duncan Long---he wants to avoid using corrosive ammo in it. The book said to beware of Russian-made ammo, which is supposed to be corrosive. Now, can you advise him as to a good source of NC 7.62 X 39, or at least give him (us) a heads-up of ammo to avoid?
Thanks!
Thanks!
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Pay alot more for the expensive brass stuff OR just clean the gun after you shoot it. It's not that big of a deal, I've been shooting Russian stuff for years with no problems.
You can run, but you'll just die tired.
charleselmer007@hotmail.com0 -
What is the copyright on the book? The russian Ammo I have been shoots for the last 6-8 years has been non corr. The last ammo I had that was corr was the Norinco from china. Nothing wrong with corrosive as long as you clean your gun. that is what the Ak's were made for.
A man with a gun is a CITIZEN, a man without a gun is a subject.0 -
There is very little of the old "Corrosive Russian" ammo out there compared to most of that available. Wolfe is of current manufacture, (within the last 4 years or less), for the most part and is plainly marked as "Non-Corrosive." Most all of it, if not all, is plainly marked at to whether or not it is Corrosive. The problem with Corrosive is that in order to get "it all" out of your gun, you really need to boil it in hot water and soap......just stew the AK-47 for Dinner? Hahahahaha!!! NOT!!
A little careful selection will easily reveal whether it is Corrosive or not......just read the label or ask if in doubt. Personally, I wouldn't use it because I'd rather shoot the damned gun that "stew it" to get it clean!
A bigger problem to me is the steel cased ammo, which I understand is what they were made to shoot, but my brass cased ammo gets a "big gouge" in the side of every case when ejected. The steel cased only gets a little scratch by comparison.......and I worry whether or not this is hurting my gun......hard steel that doesn't bend could be bending something in my gun......while maybe the soft brass which dents readily and deeply must be easier on my gun......Who knows?
I do have access to what I believe to be "Great Ammo with Brass Cases, Non-Corrosive Powder, Non-Corrosive Berdan Primer" in 123 grain lead core, full copper jacket. This is packed in 1,440 Round cases at 10.5 cents per round. I have tried it along with some UMC, and also Winchester Ammo and it shoots smaller groups than these two brands.
Fish Shudder at the sound of my Name!0 -
This topic has been covered before but it is worth another look. There is nothing inherently harmful about the use of corrosive primered ammunition. Most of the horror stories that we know today are from the experiences of troops during WWII and Korea. This was actual combat where firearms were heavily used for days on end with little or no time for cleaning and under very harsh conditions: The steaming humidity of the South Pacific, The endless rain of Italy, and the horrible winter snows of Northern Europe and Korea. Conditions you are not too likely to encounter as a run of the mill shooter.
Another problem often over looked was the fact that the major service weapons then in use had neither chromed chambers or chromed bores...features that would have easily slowed the corrosion process, but deemed too expensive and time consuming to put into production by the ordance deptartment. This short sightedness on the issue of chrome chambers and bores would rear its ugly head agin in Viet Nam with the M16, long after the switch was made to non corrosive ammunition.
The AK-47 was designed from the onset to use corrosive ammunition and its design shows clearly that it can easily take a steady diet of whatever ammo is on hand. The chamber, barrel, and gas piston are all chrome plated and will suffer no ill effects from firing corrosive ammunition...which accounts for 90+% of the surplus 7.62X39 that you will encounter. You can spend the extra dollars and shoot only non corrosive ammo- usually much more expensive- or simply clean the rifle with hot soapy water after you are finnished for the day. Trust me, the rifle will not know any difference, except that you'll be shooting it much more with the less expensive corrosive ammo and that is a good thing.
Mark T. Christian0 -
Ditto to Marks post.
STAY SAFE0 -
no ill effects from firing corrosive ammunition...which accounts for 90+% of the surplus 7.62X39 that you will encounter.
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The VAST majority of ammo made in this caliber is for U.S. consumption and dated within the past few years and rarely even into
the 1980's. Finding corrosive ammo made since the 50's for this caliber that are corrosive is next to impossible. Norinco NEVER made any, so you find all chinese ammo NON-Corrosive. South Africa's 7.62x39 is made by a plant built by Norinco to allow it to export to the u.s. when Clinton banned importation of chinese guns and ammo so NO corrosive ammo there. The Russian stuff sent here as NEVER been corrosive. It was made EXCLUSIVELY for U.S. consumption at first and now in other nations for EXPORT only. NO Russian MILITARY surplus ammo was ever released. If anyone knows for SURE of ANY corrosive 7.62x39 based on DATE and MANUFACTURER let us know.0 -
Darrell, Are we talking about surplus ammo (packed in "Spam" cans or simular military packaging) new manufactured ammunition for commercial sales (20 round cardboard boxes) in the U.S. market? I believe this is the ammo I mentioned in my post as being "usually more expensive". I have quite a bit of Chinese surplus 7.62X39 loaded on SKS stripper clips and it is corrosive. I have two wooden cases of East German surplus and sample rounds failed the "bright nail" test so I consider it corrosive- although I could be mistaken. I have never fired any Russian surplus 7.62X39 ammunition in this country and never claimed to.
I have traveled extensively throughout Eastern Europe over the past decade on firearms related business and have sampled a tremendous amount of military ammunition from Albania to Rumania and have found that it is nearly all corrosive primed. If these countries are now using non corrosive primers I doubt that they are exporting that new ammo and retaining the older corrosive rounds for domestic use. Up until a decade ago I think that corrosive primers were still the domanant type in use by most militarys outside of NATO and other western countries...large numbers of smaller countries used 7.62X39.
I stand by my statement that there are no built in long term dangers of the use of corrosive ammunition if proper cleaning measures are used after shooting. I feel that the U.S. military experience during peace time demonstrates this very clearly. After The late Dr. Wilbert J. Huff of the Bureau of Mines, under contract from the War Department, proved the cause of barrel corrosion was due to the presence of potassium chloride in the primer mixtures in the late 1920's and developed the water based cleaning procedures, barrel corrosion dropped off to near zero. A few years later the Ordnance Department developed a range of special bore cleaners, most of which were based on emulsions and polarized oils. These were lubricating agents that had a strong affinity for metals, but also combined easily with water. The water disolved the salts and the oil remained to sufficently retard rusting. Problems only developed when proper cleaning procedures are not followed, either due to involvement in hostile action or simple over sight. While on base and in peace time there were very few barrels replaced due to corrosion.
Far too many barrels were replaced on service weapons during WWII and Korea and this pushed the Ordnance Department to at last move ahead and begin the switch over to non corrosiver primers- which had been available in Europe as far back as 1901 and developed by Rheinische-Westphalisch Sprengstoff A.G. and simular primers were used by the Swiss military as far back as 1910 or 11. This composition used barium nitrate in place of potassium chloride along with a bit of picric acid to give it a boost. With this primer the chance of corrosion was drasticaly reduced. As an experiment Frankfort Arsenal loaded a batch of test ammunition for use in the 1930 National Matches. Due to an error in the primmer mixture and extremely hot weather at Camp Perry that year, these cartridges were giving evidence of extremely high pressures. As a result the army deemed the entire primer test a failure and decided that the billion or so rounds of corrosive ammunition on hand from "The Great War" would do just fine, thank you very much. It would not be until the 1950's that the switch to non corrosive primers would at last take place in U.S. Military ammunition.
Lessons learned from WWII, Korea, and the U.S. M1 Carbine cartridge (which was always loaded non corrosive) at last convinced Ordnance that the time had come. While I don't claim to know nearly as much about U.S. Military ammunition as Iconoclast, I think I do understand the corrosive vs. non corrosive primer pretty well. Feel free however to further enlighten me on the primer subject in simular detail as I used in this post. I am always an eager student and have learned much on GB and have been proven wrong before.
Mark T. Christian0
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