Shipping, FFL, and Gun Transfer Question
I had previously asked this forum's opinion on whether unlicensed (no ffl) individuals that lived in bordering states (KY. and Ohio) could legally transfer a long gun. Most responses stated that the answer was no. I also came to the same conclusion by reading the federal law on the ATF web site.
After much debate back and forth I convinced the high bidder of my auction (unlicensed Ohio resident) to provide me with a ffl in his state to take delivery of the rifle. He has sent the money (Bank check that is good), but did not send ffl and stated he would send it when he had made the arrangement. Now 30 days later he sends name of ffl. Says ffl will not send copy of licence to me (only to another ffl holder), and also wants my ss # and copy of my drivers license. FFL in Ohio has contacted me by phone and is sending signed ffl to an ffl holder, name of which I provided.
Talked with the gentleman for some minutes. Amoung other things he was very interested in how many guns I had bought or sold over the internet, and how I had shipped them. Told me that I had violated the law by shipping a long gun via USPS (said only FFL could do so). Also stated that residents of Ohio could legally buy/sell long guns from/to residents of Ky. (even though unlicensed).
Please give me your comments/opinions on the above. Does this sound fishy to anyone else? Anyone agree with the Ohio FFL? Do any of you provide your ss # when selling a gun?
Thanks for your help.
After much debate back and forth I convinced the high bidder of my auction (unlicensed Ohio resident) to provide me with a ffl in his state to take delivery of the rifle. He has sent the money (Bank check that is good), but did not send ffl and stated he would send it when he had made the arrangement. Now 30 days later he sends name of ffl. Says ffl will not send copy of licence to me (only to another ffl holder), and also wants my ss # and copy of my drivers license. FFL in Ohio has contacted me by phone and is sending signed ffl to an ffl holder, name of which I provided.
Talked with the gentleman for some minutes. Amoung other things he was very interested in how many guns I had bought or sold over the internet, and how I had shipped them. Told me that I had violated the law by shipping a long gun via USPS (said only FFL could do so). Also stated that residents of Ohio could legally buy/sell long guns from/to residents of Ky. (even though unlicensed).
Please give me your comments/opinions on the above. Does this sound fishy to anyone else? Anyone agree with the Ohio FFL? Do any of you provide your ss # when selling a gun?
Thanks for your help.
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Non-licensee can ship long guns via USPS. Only FFL dealers may ship a handgun through YSPS. The rest I have no idea about.
AlleninAlaska
http://www.outdoor-o-rama.com
He who dares not offend cannot be honest.
-- Thomas Paine0 -
Labwild, It appears to me that the receiving ffl holder is making up his own rules. He will have a copy of the Federal Firearms Regulations reference guide. Ask him to give you the page and paragraph that supports his interpretation of what is required.
The receiving ffl does need to have identification of whom he receives a firearm from as this must be entered in his bound book. A photocopy of driver's license should suffice for that. I can't imagine why he would need your ssan. I wouldn't let the buyer or his receiving ffl jerk me around. Tell him to get another dealer to recieve the gun.0 -
I appreciate your comment. My goal is to be legal. 0 -
I have sold several guns on gb and found several strange dealers. some will not recieve a gun from anyone but an ffl maybe because their afraid the gun could be stolen. I had one way of getting around the pistol shipping rules I had a buyer for an m11-9 with a bunch of accessories I broke the upper off the lower sent it with the acc.s then sent the lower uspo as gun parts to the ffl saved $25 + 0 -
Labwild - Having shipped guns both with and without my own FFL, seems like the FFL holders are being overly cautious, and interpreting the rules for their own protection. For an FFL to recieve a firearm from out of state the only requirement is for him to log the firearm into his bound book, with name & address (ONLY) of the person he recieved the firearm from. The whole purpose of the FFL (01) type is to recieve firearms in interstate trade from both other FFL holders and NONLICENSED individuals. Of course OH or KY regs may complicate this.
Collector94
- Worst part of having a new FFL is that you don't get to keep all the neat guns you run buy! -0 -
I certainly appreciate all the above comments. I would like to clarify that I do not think the buyer is trying to do anything criminal, at least not intentionally. I hope that by getting this discussion going that we can help others avoid some of these problems. We all need to stick together and not cause any incidents that might have bad consequences for GUNBROKER patrons. 0 -
I have received firearms from dealers (FFL) and non-dealers. All I needed from the non-dealers were their names and addresses. I didn't need a ssn as it is not required by ATF or for the bound book records. The person receiving the firearm filled out the 4473, I did the NICS check (after it came into effect) and they went home with their gun.
There is one thing I am questionable about is how can a manufacturer do repairs/modifications/warranty work to a gun then ship it directly back to the owner? Someone clarify this please........
D G Guns0 -
Yup, seems to be going through that alot lately. I ask for the FFL
and some will send it freely and some will ask for additional funds
and assorted documentation from me (DDL, SOC, etc) for this service, on top of whatever they are charging the guy to receive the firearm.
I don't send them anything, I usually talk to the customer and have them shop around until they find an FFL wanting his/her business, and that works for me.
As for shipping USPS, I mail long guns through them and take along
the FFL copy. If I'm asked what the contents are, I tell it's a safe
rifle going to a FFL holder. Only ONCE did I get held up and have to
show the FFL copy. I've been fortunate that the local PO knows me
and I don't wear my Al-Quida fan club t-shirt anymore. Hope that helps.0 -
supv26,
All of this FFL to FFL requirements has to do with "transfer of ownership... When a firearm comes in for repair, And it doesn't remain in my possession overnight...It doesn't have to be logged in my repair log. If it stays overnight, I must log it in from "JOHN DOE" ; xxxx Main St.; His Town,His State, ZIP.... When he picks up the firearm when the repairs are completed, it is logged back out to him.. This is my "certification" that the ownership of the firearm has not changed.. The same thing applies to a "mail order" repair..(back to the factory or to Texas to have a muzzlebrake installed). If an individual pawns a firearm, Ownership is considered to have changed,and a NICS check must be run prior to returning it to the original owner, because until the original owner pays of the pawn...The pawnshop owner owns the firearm....
Whenever a question arises about a firearm moving from place to place, ask yourself a couple of questions... IS THIS A CHANGE OF OWNERSHIP?? IS THE MOVEMENT ACROSS A STATE LINE?? If yes, then you need to speak with a KNOWLEDGEABLE licensed dealer for the exact procedure to follow to keep everybody out of jail..0 -
quote:
There is one thing I am questionable about is how can a manufacturer do repairs/modifications/warranty work to a gun then ship it directly back to the owner? Someone clarify this please........
There are several exemptions in the regulations where nonlicensees can receive firearms in interstate commerce. An owner's firearm being returned from being repaired is one of them.0 -
Hey JIM STARK and EOD Guy thanks for the information. I have my regs manual laying right here and I am sure it is written in there but sometimes getting the information after it has been reviewed by several others helps a lot. Thanks!!!!
D G Guns
Edited by - supv26 on 12/08/2002 10:46:300
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