erma
I've seen a number of Erma-Werke rifles on GB, but none like this one. It is a bolt action single shot caliber 5.4 (.22) Model F36 manufactured by Erma Waffenfabrik in Erfurt. I know the company moved from Erfurt to Dachau at some time. The stock is varnished and has heavy hand checkering. The rear sight slides forward and back on a track, in addition to being adjustable for elevation and windage. The receiver is smooth except for a short pair of grooves behind the bolt. There is a safety lever beside the trigger. Any information you could give me about dates of manufacture of this model, about the company, or value range would be appreciated.
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Just purchased 380 'Luger'. Have stripped, cleaned, and it's ready to go. This gun has never been shot. Made in 1967 is my quess - SN 118K. Any suggestions? I have an old Erma circa 1940's that I need to retire. Will use the new one mostly for target stuff. thanks 0 -
Is this the "baby Luger"? A much smaller frame than a standard Luger? I worked in a gun shop a few years ago and we had one in 32Auto. The blue book lists it in the $300-325 range in very good shape but we didn't find much interest in it at that price. It's a good plinker, Erma made good stuff. For Luger fans it's a novelty, but I wouldn't look at it as a collection piece. Still, there's just something about that Luger look that is irresistable.
Pass on the tradition, teach a kid to shoot.0 -
Sorry, I just realized that was your first post! Welcome to the best gun forum on the net. Hope you have as much fun here as I do.
Pass on the tradition, teach a kid to shoot.0 -
Yeah, it is collectable, but no collectors item. I just like the Erma stuff. Have had the other one since I was a kid. My dad gave it to me, much to the chagrin of 2 brothers. But, I was the only one good with a pistol. The fact that it had never been shot was a big draw.
I have taught 2 kids to shoot! My son is now teaching Scouts to shoot. If you have never held the little 380, you might want to try it. The balance and feel is superb! The 22 is a little light, but still probably fun.I just want to take good care of this one and treat it right from the beginning.
thanks!0 -
Welcome aboard spiny, these little pistols have an interesting history. Stoeger Arms Company has owned the tradename "Luger" here in the United States since 1929 when the company became the sole importer. In Europe these pistols were/are known as the Parabellum. After the end of WWII, A.F. Stoeger found he no longer had a source for these pistols- the Germans had discontinued all production in 1943 and the German arms industry was in shambles as well as being prohibited from producing firearms. That, plus the mass of surplus Lugers imported into the USA, wiped out his market.
As far back as the mid 1950's, when German arms production resumed, Stoeger began searching for a German firm who would revise the Luger. Detailed drawings were discovered in archives and by the early 1960's Stoeger began his search for a re birth of the pistol. The problem was that even with the advances in manufacturing technics it was still going to cost over $200-300 per unit to deliver a new Luger. At that time you could buy a surplus Luger for half that amount- or less- and a new Colt Gold Cup only cost $160. The market did not look promising and sales would be slow.
At that point Stoeger switched gears: rather than a clone of the 9mm model, why not make a pistol very close to the original, but in a smaller and less expensive to produce caliber? A contract with Mr. Gary Wilhelm was signed and Mr. Wilhelm designed a .22 caliber automatic pistol which look for all the world like the original- although in .22 LR. The hardest part was getting the toggle action to function, but Stoeger insisted that feature not be deleted; what would a Luger be without a toggle? Wilhelm's design was protected by a number of patents and when finsihed the .22 Luger weighed within one ounce of the original. Pretty good work.
When first introduced, the little Luger had a retail price of $69.95, still rather pricey since a High Standard Sport King, Browning Nomad, or a Colt Huntsman cost five bucks less. Sales were good however and the little ERMA was proving popular. After the 1968 Gun Contolr Act barred the imports of surplus military firearms- Lugers included- Stoeger became the only game in town for new Lugers of ANY sort. By that time the company had added .32 and .380 pistols to the line and sales were solid for many years.
In 1972 Mauser announced that the production of a new 9mm Luger pistol would commence and would be imported by Interarms. Called the Parabellum (Stoeger still owns the Luger name) this new pistol sold for $290- a king's ransom! In fact you could purchase a Browning Renaissance Hi-Power for a few dollars more. It seems that Mr. Stoeger's production cost of a new manufactured Luger were pretty accurate. Your little ERMA is a fine pistol and will give you many years of fun shooting. Once more, welcome aboard.
Mark T. Christian0 -
Thanks Mark!
You really know a lot of history on the Luger. I understand that Stoeger is making the Luger again, but it is REALLY pricey.
I don't know anything about the Parabellum (?). But doesn't the name come from the original battle over the caliber? Seems like there were a few changes along that line in the beginning with the 9mm winning.
Do you have much history on Erma Werke? I know that all their records were destroyed after WWll. Then, they went back into production under new ownership. Probably several times. I think they shutdown again around 1998 or so. I cannot find any contacts for the company. Found a couple of websites, both defunct.
thanks!
spiny0 -
I had one of the Erma baby Lugers in .380 that I bought used in what seemed to be excellent condition at a gun show for $300 from a guy just walking around ... the very first time I took it out to shoot, on the second shot the cocking toggle hinge broke, the pin went flying and I could never find parts for it so I used it in a little display ... finally included it in a trade deal to another guy that thought he could do some fancy welding and fix it ... it was a neat little pistol but the .380 may be kind of fragile ... that was just my experiance ... I recently sold an Erma .22 Luger that seemed much more solid, but I only shot it once for grins.
Oh yeah! welcome to the board!
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Chance favors the prepared mind
kimberkid@gunbroker.zzn.com
Edited by - kimberkid on 11/16/2002 17:51:030 -
quote:
I had one of the Erma baby Lugers in .380 that I bought used in what seemed to be excellent condition at a gun show for $300 from a guy just walking around ... the very first time I took it out to shoot, on the second shot the cocking toggle hinge broke, the pin went flying and I could never find parts for it so I used it in a little display ... finally included it in a trade deal to another guy that thought he could do some fancy welding and fix it ... it was a neat little pistol but the .380 may be kind of fragile ... that was just my experiance ... I recently sold an Erma .22 Luger that seemed much more solid, but I only shot it once for grins.
Oh yeah! welcome to the board!
===========================
Chance favors the prepared mind
kimberkid@gunbroker.zzn.com
Edited by - kimberkid on 11/16/2002 17:51:030 -
OOPS!
Oh well. There was no reply on that last one!
I hope my experience is better! What ammo did you use? What condition was the gun in? I understand that Erma has always made a good gun. My first one is in its 50's and still shooting! As sort of an heirloom, I need to retire it. It is one of those things that dealers can never find in their books and always offer $75.00 for!!!!!!!!!!
What kind of handguns do you currently prefer? Why? I like to target shoot for fun, that's about it for handguns. Not looking for con-cealed carry. Although, when my son argued that I needed to get a 9mm, at least for protection, I did argue that 5 or 9 shots from a smaller caliber aimed at the knees might be just as effective as a larger caliber, fragmenting, energy transferring job aimed at the vitals, without the guilt involved with killing someone. You just need to get your point across I think.
spiny
thanks for the welcome. Do you know if Erma is still in business? I think not.0 -
Kimberkid,
I have also ordered some Snap Caps to test my rebuild after field stripping as well as the mechanics of the thing. It won't show a response to heat stress, but I will gain a little more confidence in my ability to read and follow directions!
spiny0 -
spiny -
I think it was PMC ammo, the gun seemed to be in very good condition, so maybe it was the excption rather than the rule. I'm pretty sure Erma is out of business, at least thats what I've been told by 2 aquaintinces in Germany.
When it comes to handguns I mostly .45's, mostly Kimbers, but I have a few HK's, Beretta's a couple Rugers and a small assortment of other pistols ... I used to compete occasionally years ago, but don't find the time to practice enough to stay competitive anymore so I just shoot enough to stay fairly proficent and for the fun of it.
mark christian -
Thanks for the short history lesson, I really enjoyed it!
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Chance favors the prepared mind
kimberkid@gunbroker.zzn.com0 -
I am glad that you had good luck with your Erma 22. The first 22 pistol I ever bought was a Erma that I bought new about 1962. The firing pin broke within a 100 rounds, they fixed it under warrenty, and I traded it as soon as I got it back. I have been gun shy of Erma products ever since. 0
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