The reality of Silencers
Where i live silencers are illegal to own, so i never had any experience with them until this past weekend when i visited my uncle. he lives in a state where they are legal and recently bought a AAC modified Ruger MK II with a suppressor on it. we shot subsonic ammo through it and it was amazing how quite it was. However, it was still loud enough to be heard for a ways and you could tell it was a gunshot. my question is this- how can the military get there silencers to be so quite as to not alert nearby enemy during the dead of night when sound carrys the furthest?? ive read books on SEALS and the like where they say they fired a silenced 9mm pistol at a soldier during a night op and missed, and the soldier was totally unaware until he was struck by the second bullet. is this possible? just curious if anyone has any experiecne with professional suppressors
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There is a difference between a suppressor and a silencer, just like between a glass pack and a muffler. A full silencer will muffle the sound almost completly.
The NRA is on our side!0 -
If I understand correctly you are refering to the navy seals of the vietnam era using the modfied S&W 39 with the "hush-puppy" silceners. They are a bit different, they were a one time use item, once a shot was fired thru it, the seal was broke and it didn't muffle anymore. 0 -
I only have one, on a Wather P-22. It is quite quiet. You will find that given equal silencers, the firearm action comes into play. You can hear my semi action operate. A bolt action (and I would think a lever action) is noticeably more quiet. Naturally, I am talking about the first shot.
On the other hand, we are talking about something quite expensive after the $200. stamp and has little practical value. 30 years ago, being practical was much more important to me!
cbxjeffIt's too late for me, save yourself.0 -
It's possible your uncle has not repacked the device. I have found that after 10 rounds, most are useless unless repacked, esp. the washers. 0 -
Isn't the Ruger MK II a semi auto .22LR pistol??
Then you will most likely hear the bolt cycle and some gasses will escape out of the back - causing a noise.
I don't remember what Ruger model I once saw with a silencer, but he held a hand at the bolt - holding it slightly so it wouldn't open.
The recoil or pressure wasn't so great, that he had to bite his tongue or something, but then the pistol didn't say anything but a noticable CLICK-sound.
Then offcourse he had to reload manually by pulling the bolt.
I've had great success with a homebuilt silencer for my Ansh?tz .22LR rifle. Built from a 3 D-cell MagLite.
You can see it here, if you'd want to. : http://www.happynanoq.dk/pictures/peterej1.jpg
It's a bolt action rifle, so no gasses escapes out back of it.
It also of so great volume that it can take semi-auto fire from a friends Ruger 10/22 without any problems.
All it says is a Click from the bolt hitting the firingpin, then a slight gass escape (phhhhhhhhhhh-sound, maybe from the bullet in the air) from the silencer and the sound from when the bullet hits the target.
But then again, Greenland is open territory for silencers/supressors.
Both for hunting, practise and fun.
I hope you get great fun out of it though =o)
Regards
Peter E Jeppesen
Greenland0 -
I WAS IN A CC&S CO. (COLLECTION, CLASSIFICATION, & SALVAGE) IN NAM AND WE HAD A RUSSIAN .32 ACP. BOLT ACTION PISTOL W/ SILENCER TURNED IN TO US THAT WAS GREAT FUN. FIRST SHOT WAS A CLICK, SECOND SHOT WAS A POP AND GOT PROGRESSIVELY LOUDER AS THE PISTOL HEATED UP. LET IT COOL AND IT WAS BACK TO A CLICK. 0 -
Back in my mis-spent youth I made a silencer for a .22 rifle. It was from various scrap items, a brass tube about 1" dia and 6" long, with baffles made from aluminum washers about quarter inch apart with a quarter inch hole. With a .22 short all you heard was the hammer click and a sort of chuff sound like a Daisy bb gun. With a .22 LR, it was much louder due probably to the sonic crack of the faster bullet. I didn't shoot it enough to find out how long it was effective. 0 -
Interesting topic...
I thought a suppressor was to reduce the flash, and a silencer was to reduce the report. I guess a supressor does both in some cases, but not all. Flash suppressors are not report suppressors.
Turns out, I have a West German made Anshutz 22LR rifle that Ive had since I was a kid some 30 years ago. Its the most beautiful 22 rifle Ive ever seen. Its has a darker forehand end stock piece than the one linked here with the suppressor on it. Used to pop ground hogs and woodchucks with it on local farmer's fields.
AV8R0 -
Dano,
I have enjoyed and learned from your many posts. I am just a newbe compared to you. However your post sounds like a condemnation for silencers!
OK, the suppressor / silencer question. If I can hear the cartrige being struck and the device is commonly called and advertised as a silencer, that's good enough for me.
I was at Knob Creek a couple months ago. The lack of noise from the guys firing with silencers was amazing. I have shot 2 or 3 pieces from my dealer friend. That's how I know about different actions.
"Usable life" well yes, they need an amount of upkeep. Much like my first wife! The thing is that you really don't go out and unload a box with one of these anyway.
As for being more trouble than they are worth - they have little real practical value to begin with. They are something to buy and experience and just put on the shelf and own.
I'm not trying to bitch here. It's just that some impractical things are enjoyable to some people.
One other thing, guys, don't get caught with a home-made.
cbxjeffIt's too late for me, save yourself.0 -
Dano is correct. The term "silencer" in place of the word "suppressor" is something along the lines of using the word "clip" instead of the more correct word "magazine".
AV8R--A flash suppressor will suppress muzzle flash (but only to a certain degree). The suppressor to which this thread is referring is the type that suppresses the noise created by the rapid expansion and collapse of air molecules caused by the gasses escaping from the muzzle of a firearm.
I wish I could get a suppressor for my .22. It would make squirrel hunting so much easier if every shot didn't scare the rest of the forest rats away.0 -
Hey guys, thanks for all the great replys. Thats more information than i had hoped for. I do have a question for HappyNanoq or anyone else who knows the answer... You mention someone taking his off-hand and using it to hold the bolt of a 22 pistol shut. Interestingly enough my uncle and me pondered this idea but dismissed it on the count that we feared it would damage the gun. Were we wrong? Would it be possible to hold the bolt closed without damaging the pistol or, more importantly, the shooter? Thanks again! 0 -
Dano,
I appreciated your professional reply. I don't see those often enough around here. I actually thought of not posting any negative comments. When that happens though, the board is doomed!
Yes, Knob Creek is a wild place. Temporary threshold shift is the term for temporary hearing impairment due to loud noise. I started my work at GM's Allison Gas Turbine in the 60's & working on engine noise. Retired in '92. Boy did we spend the gov. money on that one!
Using one at my dealer friends' country place though was a different situation. I really could hear the cartrige being struck. Pretty impressive.
We certainly agree though that the average guy has many more places to spend his dollars than on something like this.
Take care,
cbxjeffIt's too late for me, save yourself.0 -
Has anyone here ever used a wet suppressor? 0 -
Yes, as a matter of fact I have. Someone correct me if I am wrong, but I believe they are more efficient that the dry type. We are looking at not just baffles, but a sound (wave) absorbing media. The down side is that you have to dunk them in a pail of water every few rounds or they lose their effectiveness. Not something you could do on the battlefield! I can't help but think that they would foul up quickly with all that moisture,
cbxjeffIt's too late for me, save yourself.0 -
Cwinn:
Yes, I had a friend who did that.
I believe it was the regular papertarget Ruger MK2 in stainless with the heavy barrel (I don't know enough of these ones, models and such), but with the supressor on it he simply held his off-hand on the back of the bolt.
It didn't damage the weapon and I don't see how it would.
The barrel/chamber and all-around build of that pistol is strong enough to take it.
But then again, he used subsonic ammunition, it doesn't generate that much pressure as a CCI Stinger would.
But as he held the bolt closed, I.E. blocking the bolt with his off-hand from it's natural reloading-action, the pistol didn't make much sound at all. But had to be reloaded manually.
Offcourse there was a click-sound and I believe I didn't hear the slight whistle from the supressor/silencer, but I did hear the target being hit.
But then again - To be safe, just have fun with it as it is.
Don't take chances with a firearm =o)
A silenced MK II shouldn't make much noise anyways.
I've got most of my experience by supressing/silencing rifles, I've made 1/2"UNF thread on several .22LR's, a few .222Rem/.223Rem, .243, 6.5*55, , .270Win (my own Mossberg rifle, I mounted a recoil-reducer/flash-supressor on it when the silencer wore out. DANG those things are LOUD.), .308Win and the biggest one I believe was a .30-06.
Oh, better stop here.. Have fun shooting.
Regards
Peter E Jeppesen.0 -
attempting to keep the bolt from cycling on a Ruger .22 pistol sounds like a broken thumb waiting to happen! 0 -
I have a Ruger MK1 that I occasionally hold the bolt shut for various reasons.... No problem, just use my left thumb in a modified 2 hand grip. I feel almost no force on it. I would not attempt it with anything other than a .22.
rich
A man with a gun is a CITIZEN, a man without a gun is a subject.0 -
HappyNanoq-
thanks for the reply, and the suppressor you made looks great! i only wish they were legal here. just for kicks i decided to try holding the bolt shut on my S&W 22A after reading the posts here... with subsonic ammo it is almost effortless, and still easy to shoot well. by the way my father said he had some experience when he was in law enforcement with a suppressed 9mm with a bolt-lock device of some sort, which kept the weapon from cycling after the shot. id never heard of those before, but it seems like it could solve the porblem of gas escaping from the chamber.0 -
Cwinn:
I'm glad that you didn't break anything, and thanks for your opinion on my silencer though. It was just a winter evening project to get some time go by and refresh my skills in machines.
I will try to take a few pictures of it, I've got it disassembled right now, I can post or send you the pictures.
I believe I've seen two rifles with a bolt locking mechanism now that you mention them. One was a semiauto where the knob that you'd use for recycling could be pressed inwards, locking the bolt shut.
Semiauto rifles are hard to silence, as the noise excapes through the open recoil- or gas operated bolt.
As for the SAS troops, I know only a little of them.
But after having seen trainingtechniques, their capabilities, training and such in a TV-program - no offence intended - but the US Seal team and even the Royal Danish Frogman Corps (The Danish Navy SEALs) seemed like slowmotion. They're.... they're.... WOW.
I mean, the US SEAL goes in, with no thought of them being killed and spraying bullets (that's what the US SEAL guy litterally said) - SAS is more effective and accurate, destroying every badguy by total surprise. And the SAS are only one or two at it.
But I do know that the US SEAL, SAS and for that matter the Royal Danish Frogman Corps (The Danish Navy SEALs ) are ranged quite high on the international scale. As for what I'm told.
Regards
Peter E Jeppesen.
Greenland.0
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