national match shoots ONLY wadcutters???
howdy,,,,i bought a Colt "national match mid-range" chambered in 38 spec. I recieved an old box of ammo with it. They were wadcutters. The fellow i purchased it from had it in his safe for 20 some years and so far it is unfired.
Well,,i sort of don't own guns i don't shoot,,,anyway, he told me that he remembers that only wadcutters were to be shot thru it, and i am trying to verify this before i fire it up. Round nose ammo cycles thru by hand ok,,but if i must shoot only wadcutters, does anyone know why? thanks
Well,,i sort of don't own guns i don't shoot,,,anyway, he told me that he remembers that only wadcutters were to be shot thru it, and i am trying to verify this before i fire it up. Round nose ammo cycles thru by hand ok,,but if i must shoot only wadcutters, does anyone know why? thanks
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The chambering designation on mine is ".38 Mid-Range," which I always took to mean wadcutters. I would have to dig out the owner's manual to see if it addressed the issue of standard .38 ammunition. I always assumed standard .38 ammunition was not recommended. I would speculate that the recoil impulse using standard .38 ammunition would exceed the design balance of the recoil spring and slide weight, but I cannot see any danger other than pistol damage after too many rounds of it. These pistols were desgined as target pistols, not defense pistols, and the wadcutters are target rounds. I would stick with them. 0 -
sooo,,,,do you think the gun itself because of metallurgy makeup is weak? I change my slide springs in my 45acp's to match the ammo i shoot,,could this also be a case of needing a tougher spring, or shooting ammo that is similar fps to wadcutters? I must admit i have never shot or investigated the power or fps of wadcutters..but assume they are lower power loads. I will compare the wieght of the 38 spec slide vs the 45acp slide when i get back to work next week.
I guess i'm thinking that my Gold Cup was also designed as a target pistol, but i changed the springs to shoot harder hitting ammo,,,why not the 38spec? Are the barrels weak, ect?0 -
I always tread very lightly around one of JudgeColt's posts as the man knows his Colt's and I hate the thought of stepping on his toes. I have a 1961 write up dealing with the introduction of the then new
National Match Colt in .38 mid-range wad cutter. It states very clearly that the pistol was designed for use with the wadcutter cartridge only and the use of standard .38 Special ammunition is not recommended. The fact the Special cycles by hand means NOTHING. I doubt that it would feed reliably under actual firing.
Here is the heart of the two page article: ...it has a special barrel bushing up front to provide even pressure between the barrel and the slide. All its own is Colt's new type of "floating" barrel. Since it is not mounted on a link, like the .45 and .38 Super, it does not drop at the rear during recoil, but goes straight back a mere 1/8". Although barrel and slide are never locked together as on the other two types, the barrel is pulled to the rear that fraction of an inch, along with the slide, by the friction of the fired expanded case against the chamber. The pressure falls and the case is free to be drawn back and ejected. The .45 and .38 Super need a locked breech system to help the mass of the recoiling parts to resist heavy recoil. The .38 wadcutter is mild and needs no such action. END OF QUOTE. Based on that information, changing a spring would do nothing except make the pistol malfuction.
Based on the paragraph and the other data in the article I would say that use of standard .38 Special ammunition would prove damaging to the pistol. As the Judge says, it may well take time, but it will wear out much faster. The pistols action was tuned to fire the ONE TYPE of ammunition for ONE purpose: punching holes in paper targets. The design of the pistol is not weak, it is simply a purpose built firearm...very one dimensional- most match guns are. The .45 Gold Cup still uses the standard 1911 swing link action so it will respond to the type of tuning that you seem to have in mind. The .38 mid range action is very different and will not. I would suggest that you leave it alone and fire only the recommended loads. If you can't do that then why not sell it? There are folks out there who would love to have it.
Mark T. Christian
Edited by - mark christian on 11/09/2002 00:58:530 -
razerface, I do not believe the pistol is weak, but, as MC so elegantly describes it, the design is essentially a blow-back. The higher the recoil impulse, the higher the slide speed, and the greater the wear. It is the desgin, not the strength, that dictates firing only ammunition for which it was designed.
I have an early first-year Mid-Range, and later ones were redesigned with a chamber having rings in it, presumably to slow down extraction and the slide speed.
The guns were very accurate with good ammunition, but could not quite match the Smith Model 52 and were eventually discontinued. They are fairly valuable collectors' items as MC says, and their value lies there now, not so much as shooters.0 -
Well, I'll join the stampede here and say a big NO to .38 Special.
Even with the strongest recoil spring you can find, it could be dangerous.0 -
ok! ok! don't have to beat me with a stick!
Hey Mark,,anywhere I can get a copy of that article?0 -
well,,,,guess what? They do cycle thru manually,,,,but i went one more step and tried to cycle manually from the clip instead of dropping straight into the chamber......THEY WON'T GO INTO CLIP!!!
I guess that ends that for certain huh?0 -
Thats why the mag is so short, as with the smith 52, they made it so you cannot load the mag with rnd nose.
Also, its not a good idea to drop a round into the chamber and then slam the slide forward on it as it is very hard on the extractor. With some autos this practice will break the extractor after doing that over and over.0
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