Very interesting post on corrosive primers
This was posted on another board and I learned something new so thought I would copy it for you all to read, as the question of cleaning corrosive primers comes up here now and again. One user reported rust after cleaning with ammonia and a fellow who apparently knows something of chemistry and not just shooting replied:
Arrragh !!. I'm sorry but the patron saint of Chemists will put out a contract on me if I allow this to pass one more time. There is no neutralization of corrosive salts by ammonia. The corrosive action is SIMPLY, (1) Potassium Chloride is produced by the combustion of Potassium Chlorate in the (pre 1960's) primer. (2) Potassium Chloride is a salt and CANNOT REACT AND CANNOT THUS BE NEUTRALIZED. It is HYGROSCOPIC and thus attracts water - pulling it out of the air and out of the oil (some water does get into the oil from the air-a tiny amount but all you need. That's why it rusts under oil films) and allows the Chloride part of the salt to form a corrosion cell (this is why all metals near salt water corrode). (3) The way to treat this is to DISSOLVE the salt in water and FLUSH it away. Hot water works best as is dissolves the salt easier and warms the metal to dry the bore. Cold water works just as well, and so does Tea, Coffee, Milk and natures own remedy - Urine, (if you are really desperate) ANYTHING with water in it. Then clean the fouling out and oil the bore. "Ammonia" works only because it is a solution of Ammonia in WATER and that water dissolves the salt. The ammonia content will remove copper fouling but thats it.
Your method of a few "wet" patches MAY dissolve SOME of the Potassium Chloride but MAY not get all of it. Use several sopping wet patches at least, get that water into the bore. Or, do what I do, take a Thermos flask of Tea/Coffee to the range, have a cup that refreshes while you contemplate the neat group centered in the X ring (or the 6 ring more often) and pour a cupful down the bore, or Pick up a plastic Coke bottle and fill with water and use that. (Get it into the bore with a small plastic funnel jammed into a foot of hosepipe and the end whittled to fit into the chamber end). I then clean and oil the bore as normal.
"...hit your enemy in the belly, and kick him when he is down, and boil his prisoners in oil- if you take any- and torture his women and children. Then people will keep clear of you..." -Admiral of the Fleet Lord Fisher, speaking at the Hague Peace Conf
Arrragh !!. I'm sorry but the patron saint of Chemists will put out a contract on me if I allow this to pass one more time. There is no neutralization of corrosive salts by ammonia. The corrosive action is SIMPLY, (1) Potassium Chloride is produced by the combustion of Potassium Chlorate in the (pre 1960's) primer. (2) Potassium Chloride is a salt and CANNOT REACT AND CANNOT THUS BE NEUTRALIZED. It is HYGROSCOPIC and thus attracts water - pulling it out of the air and out of the oil (some water does get into the oil from the air-a tiny amount but all you need. That's why it rusts under oil films) and allows the Chloride part of the salt to form a corrosion cell (this is why all metals near salt water corrode). (3) The way to treat this is to DISSOLVE the salt in water and FLUSH it away. Hot water works best as is dissolves the salt easier and warms the metal to dry the bore. Cold water works just as well, and so does Tea, Coffee, Milk and natures own remedy - Urine, (if you are really desperate) ANYTHING with water in it. Then clean the fouling out and oil the bore. "Ammonia" works only because it is a solution of Ammonia in WATER and that water dissolves the salt. The ammonia content will remove copper fouling but thats it.
Your method of a few "wet" patches MAY dissolve SOME of the Potassium Chloride but MAY not get all of it. Use several sopping wet patches at least, get that water into the bore. Or, do what I do, take a Thermos flask of Tea/Coffee to the range, have a cup that refreshes while you contemplate the neat group centered in the X ring (or the 6 ring more often) and pour a cupful down the bore, or Pick up a plastic Coke bottle and fill with water and use that. (Get it into the bore with a small plastic funnel jammed into a foot of hosepipe and the end whittled to fit into the chamber end). I then clean and oil the bore as normal.
"...hit your enemy in the belly, and kick him when he is down, and boil his prisoners in oil- if you take any- and torture his women and children. Then people will keep clear of you..." -Admiral of the Fleet Lord Fisher, speaking at the Hague Peace Conf
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Good info thanks for the post!
God,Guns,and Guts0 -
jonk, if you go back to 09 August, 2002 there was a post on cleaning with ammonia and we delved into the subject in some depth. It is interesting that the corrosive effects of the then new non-mercuric primers introduced at the turn of the century were not noticed or considered much of a problem by the army for many years.
The reason for this was the practice of ammonia doping; the use of a ammonia/water solution which was developed to remove copper fouling from rifle bores. The dope was hell on copper and a side benifit, had enough water content to disolve the salts. When the dope was flushed from the bore the salt went along with it. The introduction of the Lubaloy bullet jacket by Western Cartridge Company in the mid 1920's eliminated the copper fouling by using a jacket which contained 8% zinc and 2% tin, in additoin to the cooper. Fouling vanished.
What appeared was barrel corrosion and there were many thoughts as to its cause. It took the work of a Dr. Huff working for the Bureau of Mines to discover the real cause and instruct the army that the use of plenty of water during cleaning would eliminate the corrosion problem. It was not until the mid 1950's that the military stopped loading ammuntion with corrosive primers for .30-06 cartridges. M1 Carbine cartridges were always loaded with non corrosive primers.
Mark T. Christian0 -
jonk & mark -
Thank you for the valuable, informative posts!!!!!!!!!!!
Learned some history, and some chemistry.0 -
Manufacture date of 30-06 and 45ACP noncorrosive primed Army ammo I believe began with 1950. Since there were enormous stocks of WW2 ammo
at that time, the corrosive ammo was in use at least to the mid '50s.
The stuff was awful. GI bore cleaner was as bad as its' smell and was ineffective. I proved this to my own satisfaction on an unused 45 barrel which showed pitting after firing which was soon followed by a thorough scrubbing with GI bore cleaner.
In the field in the far east, corrosive primers were responsible for most if not all unserviceable 30 and 45 caliber barrels and gas system components (except carbine) and the jamming and disability of BARs.
Bolt faces as well as gas system parts and ports need to be all thoroughly scrubbed with soap and water if you need to use this ammo.
Given the choice, I wouldn't use it in any of my guns.0
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