Curio & Relics inspection.
Hello, I have had my license for approx. 6 yrs and have not been checked yet, Recieved a call yesterday about being inspected,I am assuming records etc....Anybody gone through this as a c&r holder and what should I expect?.
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Follow this link for info.
http://www.titleii.com/Bardwell/jim4.txt
Some of this will apply to you, but is good info.
Walte0 -
I've had a C&R for > 10 years, and you will be the first person (not under suspicion of dealing without an FFL) I heard of who was inspected. I am really surprised; ATF has fewer investigators than any other Federal LE agency, and they are working overtime trying to catch terrorists and snipers.
The one thing that I KNOW that they will do is inspect your bound book; just make sure that it is up-to-date. They MAY ask to see any C&R guns listed under "Acquisitions" but not listed under "Dispositions"; hopefully you can produce them. Other than that, there is nothing else that can cause you a problem.
Neal0 -
did you sell a bunch of stuff lately?? i talk with the local atf agents all the time and they say they have never inspected a c&r license just on a wim, one of your guns my have turned up somewhere it should not have been. 0 -
I've had a C&R FFL since 1981 and have never been inspected once, although I have been inspected on my dealers FFL. I agree with Neal and University, in that it is VERY unusual for any C&R to be inspected for reasons other that a criminal ivestigation. There are simply not enough compliance inspectors to go around and take a look at everyone. You could be a part of a simple "sampling study" to see what collectors around the country are doing.
As mentioned in the other posts; have you sold a lot of guns lately? Have you made more than a few sales to un licensed persons? Have you been "dealing" in C&R firearms- making regualer trips to area gun shows? These are possible trouble spots if some of your sales ended up in the wrong places with the wrong people. Have you been selling a lot of C&R Firearms that are not over 50 years old but simply on the C&R List because they are rare or collectable? So called "modern" C&R.
The first compliance inspection is the worst because you expect the worst. Here is how it goes from the time the agent steps in the door. MAKE SURE TO SEE VALID IDENTIFICATION! There are scam artists out there. If you even doubt for a minute that he is legitimate just call the BATF regional office where he is assigned and ask for a physical description of the agent. The agent will not mind you doing this as he would expect you to be careful about having a stranger enter your home. If the guy at the door is 6'-4", 250 lbs. and the office says he's 5'-10"...you got a scam, call the police.
Assuming he is who he says he is, invite him in and sit him down. Have all of your records and bound book available for inspection. Have a copy of your license posted. If this is a straight compliance inspection things will move along quickly. Make sure all of the firearms you've aquired with your license are booked. Make sure you have certified copies of other FFL's you've shipped firearms to.
Be sure you can document any private sales you've made of firearms you've aquired with your license. The agent will look through your bound book and ask for licenses of those you've sold to and look at both to see that they are correct. He may have a specific item he's interested in or he may look at everything, you can not tell.
The whole process should be over in less the thirty minutes unless you have hundreds of firearms- like myself, then the sky could be the limit! The agent will care nothing about your private firearms so seperate them from your C&R collection right now. You can expect the agent to take notes and he will try to learn a little bit about what it is you do with your license through casual conversation. Answer any questions with the truth but don't tell him more than what he needs to know. If it is a survey you may even be give a questioneer.
Remember, if he takes any of your records, you need copies so don't let him walk out the door without at least a receipt detailing exactly what it is he is taking. The chances of him physically removing firearms are nearly non- existant. If he were going to do that, local law enforcement will be along with him as they would be the ones to take charge of the property. This would be extreme and I'd ask him to wait while you call the police yourself so that they can be there and be sure that what is going on is legit.
I doubt that you have too much to worry about. Inspite of the horror stories you may have heard, these guys are all professional and are just going about their jobs. Some of them are friendly and others are cut and dry types. ALL of them will be happy to slap you HARD if you've done something major, but most will simply have you correct a monor error like a missing ZIP code. Let us know how things go. Good luck.
Mark T. Christian0 -
This kind of garbage is exactly why my C&R application hit the shredder as soon as I learned all that it entailed. Why should I take time out of my perfectly busy day to accomidate some nosey federal agent who really has no business in my place of residence? As I understand, a C&R license is not a license to deal but a license to receive curios and relics at your place of residence without the hassle of going through a dealer. How then could it be that he would want to check your records against a firearm that ended up "in the wrong hands"? I don't see how that would be an issue. I would call the local ATF office before he comes down to "inspect" (interpret: SEARCH) and make sure that this guy is legit. Hell, I'd go so far as to ask him why he picked me out of all the C&R collectors out there to undergo an "inspection" when there are far more important things that he could be doing with his time. If I've got nothing to hide (if I was you) then I'd be quite blunt about things. I know that operating under a C&R license basically entitles the ATF to do this but it would strike me as strange and I would want to know before a perfect stranger entered my home. Hell, I'd hire a lawyer with a CCW to be in my home before, during and after the "inspection" just to make sure that this ATF guy is on the up-and-up.
Edited by - idsman75 on 10/23/2002 00:11:150 -
idsman75, while you post is interesting, I fail to see how it can assist 10ring with his question. I don't think the man is confident enough to mount some legal challenge, I think he is scared to death!
I assure you that being "blunt" with a compliance agent is not going to do his cause any good. If you re read my post I suggested a tactful line which will speed up the entire process and get the agent out ASAP. Being blunt or rude is going to make him check EVERYTHING with a microscope. There is no limit to how long he can stay or to what degree he'll want to look into the records. Nice and polite and move him along, that is the ticket.
Having a C&R FFL allows you to aquire and dispose of C&R firearms through interstate commerce. This is a privilege that involves the risk of an inspection. You tore up your application and 10ring filed his. Each of us make choices. He was asking for help from other FFL's, your application was "round filed"- I think your post would be better in the general discussion forum.
I honestly think that the man at this point needs the FACTS about inspection procedures from someone who's actually been inspected- in my case as a dealer. As for a lawyer with a CCW being present during the inspection; I don't think that statement adds much credability to your post on this subject. I was trying to help the man prepare himself for something he clearly fears. You seem to simply want to vent or rock the boat. Just my opinion.
Mark T. Christian
Edited by - mark christian on 10/23/2002 00:37:510 -
Remember, you have the option of having the inspection at the BATF office. You don't have to let the inspector in your home. 0 -
There is a difference between being "blunt" and being rude. I would call the ATF office and check with them to make sure that this isn't some clown off the street posing as an ATF agent. Secondly, I would be "blunt" by getting straight to the point with a respectful yet direct line of questions. I would inform the ATF agent that I understand that this "inspection" is his perogative but would want to know why he wants to conduct it taking into consideration all of the C&R collectors out there. It just seems strange that an ATF agent would want to waste his time on a C&R inspection when this occurs rarely (if ever)--especially during a time of national crisis when federal investigator resources are being taxed to the hilt. If I got a straight answer from him then I would hire a lawyer, not to mount a legal battle, but to be a moderator just to make sure that everything the agent does in my home is on the up-and-up. If the agent decides to play "cowboy" on the phone with me then I would arrange to meet him at his office with my guns and my records. When it comes to the ATF and their shoddy record with people in their homes and places of business, I would prefer to play the game on my terms so far as the law allows me.
There is a difference between "blunt" and "rude".0
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