Old SUHL hand gun
I need some imformation on the following hand gun. It is an old single action revolver in what appears to be 45 cal. with a part octagon to round barrel. The only markings on the gun is on the left side of the reciever group. It has an egg shaped circle with the letters c.s. followed by a small star and then c.g.h. Under this is the word SUHL. All major parts of the gun has the number 4723 stamped into them and all screws have the number 23 stamped in the heads.It has a lanyard ring in the butt. There is a large safety lever on the left side. It has a flip out plate on the right side and can be loaded this way or the cylinder can be removed by a quick release pin. It is center fire and the barrel length is around 5 inches.
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Gunsock, the C.G.H would indicate the pistol was manufactured by C.G.Haenel, of Suhl. They made a turn of the century revolver that combined the features of the Nagant and the Reichsrevolver for commercial sales in Europe. It had a safety lever on the left side as well as the barrel style you described.
There are a lot of variations of caliber so .45 is possible. I believe that the c.s. marking is for C. Schilling, another manufacturer who formed a joint venture with Haenel in the 1880's when the firm won the contract for the German Reichsrevolver. There are also pistols marked s.s., for Sauer & Son's, who joined the partnership at a later date. Much of the information on these pistols has been lost to history due to time and two World Wars. I can't provide more information than what I've just told you. Good luck.
Mark T. Christian0 -
it is most likely an 11mm german service revolver(closely resembling the .44 S&W russian round) or an 11.75mm montenegrian revolver(longer and bigger diameter than a .44 magnum). if you are lucky, it has been rechambered into something you can find and shoot. if condition is fine or better it may be of value to a collector(assuming it is unmolested and is in its original chambering) if it is in shootable condition and you can get ammo for it have some fun with it. if it is in fair to poor condition, and has been alterd, it is of little value.
the maker is a noted craftsman, on par with anyone at mauser or brno. they filled many small run military contracts around the world, and turned the production overuns into custom sporters.
What other dungeon is so dark as ones own heart, what jailer so inexorable as ones own mind.0 -
gunsock, is the grip smooth or are the stippled (checkered)? You say the cylinder can be removed with a quick release. Is there a screw present here holding that release? At rest, is the trigger located back near the rear of the gaurd or does it sit in the center of the trigger gaurd? What is the shape of the lanyard ring? Is the back strap of the revolver arched the entire length or does it have a hump? Is there a functional ejector rod and what is its shape? Are there screws behind and below the safety lever? What is the shape of the safety lever? A photo here would realy help quite a bit. It may well be a Reichsrevolver as Mike says...but it just sounds a bit like a commercial pistol based on your description.
Mark T. Christian
Edited by - mark christian on 10/21/2002 22:03:260 -
possibly a model M83 officers version of the standard infantry model??? 5 inch BBL, solid frame, single action, non ejecting, six shot revolver. loadind through a gate on the right side, the hammer being pulled back to half cock to free the cylinder(allowing it to rotate freely)ejection of spent cases or unloading was done by withdrawing the cylinder axis pin and using the pin to poke out the spent cases from the removed cylinder. the officers model started out as an infantry model with a 7 inch BBL. C.G. HAENEL & CIE made theirs into the improved, better finished officers model. the standard chambering was in the 11mm german service round(also known as the 10.6x25 DEUTCHE ORDONNANCE) these saw wide service in WWI, and continued in the hands of the police forces in german sphere of influance countries rifgt up into the 1940's. the officers model looks like a commercial or sporting arm.
What other dungeon is so dark as ones own heart, what jailer so inexorable as ones own mind.
Edited by - mrmike08075 on 10/21/2002 22:36:170 -
Mark the grips are smooth, yes there is a screw holding the release, the trigger is located toward the rear of the guard, the lanyard ring is round about one inch in diameter, the back strap is arched the entire length, there is no ejector, there are screws behind and below the safety lever. I found a picture and the only difference is the grips are checkered in the picture. It appears to be a Reichsrevolver model 1883. 0 -
Mrmike i believe you are right. thanks for the information, gunsock. 0 -
now that i know what i have, wonder what kind of value it has. saw one on an auction on the web and it was surprising. gunsock 0 -
i checked around, but could not find brass for this hand gun. i believe it can be made by shortening and reforming .44 S&W SPECIAL cases. lyman cast bullet #42798 (205 GRAINS) would work perfectly. 5.2 grs 5066(or its equivalent) powder would make a good load. muzzle velocity would be around 780 FPS. these guns were designed for black powder, and only low pressure light smokeless loads should be fired in them. (assuming its in good shape, or gunsmith inspected) the original military load was a 262 gr lead bullet. using FL powder it developed 700 FPS and 288 ME. hope this helps.
What other dungeon is so dark as ones own heart, what jailer so inexorable as ones own mind.0 -
What would be the worth of a gun like this. It is in excellent condition. All parts matching and all screws matching. Grips are good with some blueing worn. Barrel and cylinder are excellent. Doesn't appear to have been fired alot. Any help would be appreciated. gunsock 0
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