.308 suppresor

nmyers

October 07, 2002 12:45

Some things in life are just not worth the effort, and I believe that this is one of them.

Yes, you can legally make a suppressor. The BATF licenses the manufacturer of these; most people would be discouraged by the $1,000 annual fee, to say nothing of the regulations and record keeping. There's an additional $200 tax due for making each suppressor.

Yes, you can buy plans for suppressors. However, most of these will not work well, nor will they last long. A lot of engineering and machining skills go into the making of a good suppressor; if you examine a commercial suppressor, you will be impressed with the precision.

It would not be accurate to use the word "silencer" when discussing a .30 cal rifle. Although the report is reduced, they still make a pretty loud "bang". Your neighbors will still be aware that you are shooting.

If you still want a suppressor, buy a commercial one, pay the $200 tax, and pay a gunsmith to attach an adaptor to your rifle; that's the only reasonable way to do it. Oh, and have your rifle converted to .300 Whisper.

Neal

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JustC

October 07, 2002 13:30

I have looked into it, and have friends who are FFL holders, nmeyers is telling you straight, it just is not worth it. the money and pain in the a$$ hoops the ATF wants you to jump through are rediculus. Now, if you can research it somehow, there was an article last year in GUNS magazine on the guy who builds the suppressors for the SEALS. It told of how he has come up with one that, according to the staff of GUNS and the testing persons, will silence a 308 to the point you can hear the firing pin strike the primer. Now, it is about $1000 for the suppressor, plus the class III fee, plus the gunsmith fee. All you have to do is pay for it.

A great rifle with a junk scope,....is junk.

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mark christian

October 07, 2002 15:15

Game-pawn, the previous posts are basically correct except that you do NOT need to be Class II manufacturer: a Type 07 FFL who has paid the special ocupational tax- $1000. You can make a suppressor for your own use but you MUST have prior approval from the BATF. The only Title II firearm an individual cannot manufacture for his own use is a machinegun. You can still make suppressors, short barreled shotguns and short barreled rifles for your own use. For machineguns, this ended in 1986 and only licensed manufactures may make MG's now.

Here is the drill: make sure suppressors are legal in your area. Get an ATF Form 1- application to make and register a firearm. The form is self explanitory, but you'll need to write a short note of exactly what your suppressor design is going to look like and give it a serial number (at leat four digits- and don't use 0001!). You'll need fingerprint cards, the form will have to be signed off by your local law enforcement agency- no way around this, and you'll need a check for the $200 tax. Once you are approved...maybe 4 or 5 months...maybe LONGER, you can begin to build your suppressor. DO NOTHING until the form comes back approved! If not approved you'll get your $200 back.

I agree with Neal and JustC that it is far too big a hassel to do this job yourself. What experience to you have as a machinist? There are plans on the market but nearly ever legitimate manufacturer will tell you that even when built, these designs are not very efficent. Most were intended for pistol calibers and .22 rimfire. A .308 is a high pressure, high velocity round and you'll be pushing your homemade design to the very limits of safety. You can't build the thing out of pipe fittings and steel wool from the hardware store!
You need top quality materials for the tube and the internals- the baffels (and you'll need them) will be subjected to intence heat and pressure...your silencer could easily explode if not designed correctly, or at the very least fall apart before your eyes. It is much easier in the long run to simply purchase a suppressor on the retail market. Keep in mind that ANY projectile that excedes the speed of sound is going to have a "ballistic crack" and since .308 bullets travel beyond these speeds you will still have noise when shooting your rifle. Forget about what you see in the movies and on TV, it is not like that in real life!

Mark T. Christian

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CLINTF

October 07, 2002 15:16

I have first hand experience using suppressors on the .308 in the feild and they bring the report down to the sound of a muffled .223
which still isn't very quiet. If you really don't want to bother your neighbors get a .22(quieter than most suppressed centerfires) and run .22short or Aguila Colibri ammo (quieter than most high power air rifles).

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HappyNanoq

October 07, 2002 16:41

I certainly had much fun making a silencer for my Ansh?tz .22LR rifle.
But then again, silencers are perfectly legal here, no papers, no permissions, no restrictions as for use of them.

Can you see what the silencer is made of ??
Take a close look - Yup, it IS a 3 D-cell MagLite flashlight =o)

But I agree with the others - considering the rather large amount of gas, it'd be difficult to make a silencer that will work and one that can cope with the pressurechock.
Lower calibers like .22LR or .22Mag.. even a 222Rem or 223Rem, does make some gasses. But no way near that of a .308Win.

If you still want to make a silencer for .308Win, be sure to make everything of the material as the plans described.
The baffles should be of steel plate, not just thin metal as for repairing cars with..
Anything else will bend inside the silencer and maybe send the projectile in an unwanted direction.

There are some really good silencers, like some called Reflex Supressors. Finnish patend, made in Denmark and England as well as in Finland. (might also be made elsewhere - but I know of these few places.)

They make them as big as for .50 BMG. !! And they do last.
http://guns.connect.fi/rs/50cal.html

(allthough, haven't got good experiences with the danish made - they didn't put them together as they should.)

Sorry.... Damn, forgot to mention, that the supressors I know is of a slight difference from the Reflex Supressors.!!
The ones I know and have used are fitted on a 15mm long thread at the end of the barrel, making the weapon longer and more heavy at the "nose"/barrel tip.
I've only seen the Reflex Supressors on an HK G3A3 308Win, never shot it though. But that one was with the M15.1 thread, different from the 1/2"UNF thread that is usually on smaller rifles.

Regards
Peter E Jeppesen
Greenland.

Just owns a silenced 22LR Anshutz =o) .308Win Steyr Mannlicher - Scout
That's all I need, but not all I want.

Don't do anything I've allready done - That'd just be plain stoooopid. =o)

Edited by - HappyNanoq on 10/07/2002 20:49:53

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mark christian

October 07, 2002 16:59

Nanoq, great photo and a nice use of a maglite...I'm sure the flashlight folks would be amazed to see it! As Nanoq said there are some outstanding suppressors made for the European market. I go to the IWA show (a sort of European SHOT) every year or two and always love to check out what is available for sale overseas. Can't own a handgun, but a silencer- no problem! Vaime from Finland and B&T out of Switzerland make outstanding suppressors. It must be pointed out here that individuals MAY NOT import foreign suppressors. Only licensed importers may bring these items into the US and then only for police and military sales. Here in the USA you have to purchase the domestic models.

Mark T. Christian

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robsguns

October 07, 2002 17:28

JustC,
A friend of mine 'use to have' a H&K, in .308, and it would shoot so quietly with the silencer which he'd had made for it that the only noise it made was the sound of the bolt making the metal to metal contact when cycling. Have I ever seen it fired? No, but my friend is not a liar about things such as this, trust me. I believe your report on the silencer, or the magazine's report, to be true.

SSgt Ryan E. Roberts, USMC

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HappyNanoq

October 08, 2002 03:48

mark christian :
Thanks for the info on the law overthere, I didn't know you had to buy american made silencers/supressors.

Yes, a friend of mine came in the door, right when I started the cutter and took off the "head" of the flashlight.
He actually shouted "YOU'RE CRAZY, YOU DON'T DO THAT TO A MAGLITE!!".
He's using Maglite flashlights at his boat, at his hut and anywhere he needs light. So he's happy that they're made - and not too happy that I cut one new 3 D-cell flashlight "for fun!" hehe.
I had some spare time one winter, and wanted to see if it was possible to make a silencer with my machining skills. And also to hone off my skills - as it had been a while since I had used machines at small tolerences.

But I know that the danish made and the english made - are made from the finnish patent or on permission from the finnish manufacturer.
So maybe there would be a possibility, that it's also made in the US.

Robsguns :

I have seen the silencer in use on the HK.
It did have a considerable "blow-back" when the bolt was open and it recycled a bit harder with the supressor.
But it did give the sonic report/sonic boom and sounded like somewhere between the .22LR and .222Rem/.223Rem.

I didn't try it myself, because my friend who used it - got a lot of gasses in the face. And some stuff in the eyes. (always wear eye-protection when shooting semi-/fullauto weapons with silencers.!!)
But I can't tell if there was also the metal to metal sound, I was to his left - trying to be safe from the empty cases to the right side of him. =o)

Your friend might have used sub-sonic ammo when shooting the silenced HK. Or he certainly would have gotten the sonic-boom/sonic report also.

With my .22LR, All I hear is the bolt giving off it's click and a slight "air sound" of the gasses escaping the silencer and then the sound of the projectile hitting the target.
That is if I use CCI Standard velocity ammo, they're just below the soundbarrier.
If I use hypervelocity ammo, like CCI Stinger or anything else above the speed of sound - I get the click from the bolt, the sonic boom/report, the "air sound" and the smack when the projectile hits the target.

The air sound is quite weak - like a small small hole in an airhose.
*The sound of letting the air out of a tire is a lot higher than the "Air sound".

With the Mossberg .270Win bolt action, I'd get a sound like somehwere in between a .22LR and .222Rem/.223Rem.
That's due to the bigger bullet breaking the soundbarrier I believe.

Basically I love having the quite heavy silencer on the .22LR Ansh?tz - I feel that the weight is placed better. =o)
I can hold it still at longer shots, and in prone position - it doesn't really matter because I use Harris bipods.

Regards
Peter E Jeppesen
Greenland.

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competentone

October 08, 2002 10:47

quote:
Keep in mind that ANY projectile that excedes the speed of sound is going to have a "ballistic crack" and since .308 bullets travel beyond these speeds you will still have noise when shooting your rifle. Forget about what you see in the movies and on TV, it is not like that in real life!

I'm surprised to have to "correct" Mr. Christian.

Projectiles traveling faster than the speed of sound DO NOT necessarily create a "ballistic crack".

All bullest are "coasting" after they leave the barrel; they generate no sound themselves--as compared to something like a jet plane or rocket with motors that make "noise".

Bullets (or whatever) traveling a supersonic speeds USUALLY create "small shock waves" in the air--essentially "air compressions" which our ears perceive as a "crack".

IF certain "aerodynamic constuctions" are used in the design of a projectile, the "air turbulance/shock waves" at supersonic speeds can be significantly reduced. IF these sonic disturbences are reduced sufficiently for a bullet traveling at supersonic speeds, then there is NO perceived "ballistic crack".

REAL life can sometimes be BETTER than the movies, if you know where it look...

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JustC

October 08, 2002 11:29

The silencer which robsguns and I speak, uses a theory known as the "out of phase effect". Basicaly, there are many many baffles precision welded inside the suppresor and work this way;

The first baffle is facing directly toward the sound wave which is created as the bullet leaves the bore and the gasses (also known as explosion) exit the barrel. These waves are reverberated back in the direction they originated from, this reverberation meets the next sound wave and they cancel each other out. This is what is called taking the sound wave "out of phase". The more the sound waves travel toward the front of the can, the more waves are cancelled and the less the frequency becomes until it is inaudible. This suppressor, as I stated previously, will cost, all said and done, close to $2000. But, the article I read stated that it was instantly adopted by the Seals, the first time it was demonstrated. The gentlemen was approached by the D.O.D. to build them for the Teams, and was asked for a bid, he declined the offer to profit from his invention, and being a veteran himself, offered to build the suppressors for the Teams, for cost of materials. I will post the article if I can dig it up in the vast piles of magazines at home.

Another point of interest is, that somehow, the suppresor actually, (however slightly) improved group size as well as reduced recoil.

A great rifle with a junk scope,....is junk.

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.308 suppresor

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